STRUGGLE WITH MELODY !!! grr

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Christopher_xo

Christopher_xo

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Hey everyone.

I have a huge problrem when it comes to making up melodies !
I think it's just this mental block that I have and I want to get rid of it !!

ANY Tips ???
 
Only that it may help to sort of understand 'how it works'..
There is this old thing called Psycho Cybernetics that roughly said; we have two working sides/methods in our creative abilities; One is the conscious where we do the work, struggle with and feed in what we know and can think of, ie defining and making the effort. This feeds in the raw material if you will, then when you put the task away -not being conscious of it -sleep being a prime example, the subconscious does it's miracle creation thing'- The next day, out of nowhere, there is this melody.. (or what ever.
But not so much w/o the work up front.
So theory is- do the work, set it aside, that's about it.
(YMMV, +/- 3db, etc... :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Cybernetics
 
If you're really stuck (and as an exercise) "steal" other peoples melodies.

Take an existing melody written by someone else and start changing individual notes until you have something "new".

I put "steal" and "new" in inverted commas because it's not really stealing, nor will what you create be anything new, as it's all been done before anyway... ;)

Fx:cool:
 
Frankie Rage said:
If you're really stuck (and as an exercise) "steal" other peoples melodies.

Take an existing melody written by someone else and start changing individual notes until you have something "new".

I put "steal" and "new" in inverted commas because it's not really stealing, nor will what you create be anything new, as it's all been done before anyway... ;)

Fx:cool:
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^ i agree! if you're stuck listen to a song that you really like and try and work off of it. it's really helps and since the music you are trying to put lyrics to is different the vocals will turn out to be entirely your own.
 
imo... the steal and vary idea is idiocy of the highest order... great if ya wanna become that which you stole... try writing your melodies first... away from your primary axe... so the melody isn't stifeled by your technique or lack of...
 
dementedchord said:
imo... the steal and vary idea is idiocy of the highest order... ...
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:D oh well, ...

dementedchord said:
... try writing your melodies first... away from your primary axe... so the melody isn't stifeled by your technique or lack of...
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Good advice. I write my melodies acapella. If it doesn't stand up on it's own then I don't bother with it.
 
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dont worry about it... the theme on a stolen melody is an old idea... just not advantageous if originality and personal style are a concern for you...
 
dementedchord said:
dont worry about it... the theme on a stolen melody is an old idea... just not advantageous if originality and personal style are a concern for you...
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I'm not worried. Despite your rude response to my suggestion I still say it's an exercise which may be useful to the guy.

As for originality, some peeps never have any.. and personal style; everyone has something to offer! :)
 
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The Beatles rewrote other peoples songs. Those hacks! What do they know about songwriting?! ;)
 
hmmm.....

my thoughts, in random order...

1) if you are going to "crib" a chord prog, or a melody snippet idea? Crib frm the MASTERS, baby... I mean, if your gonna steal something, steal classical!! WHy? one, its GREAT STUFF.... two, *its legal*

2) take a chord prog frmo a GREAT song (or classical section...) and write your own melody within that; early on, its great to get some structure until your comfortable with your own.

3) try making a melody with a different instrument that you are used to. MANY great songs, from classical to hard rock, were the melody and chord prog ideas worked out on PIANO first, before they went to the final instrument(s). Piano is a "melody monster". DO you normally work out melodies on guitar? Use a cheap computr piano... its a different "animal", and might occasionally take you in a new direction. Once you find a melody/chord prog idea that shows promise doodling on a computer program? THEN go to your main instrument like guitar and take it from there...

4) establish key. if your first note is C, work in the scale, then END on C... if you always work in one scale (a lot of guitar melody writers always seem to work in Blues or Pent Min...) try using another scale, if even on a computer program.

5) once you do #4, cut and paste it thru I,IV,V to quickly see if its "working"... you can ALWAYS go later to a totally diff chord prog with a few cut and pastes...

6) I dont like to "start" with an established song, and just "stir the soup" until it makes something "technically new"... some of my best ideas have come like this...

I have a song I consider awesome in my head. I have HEARD it a million times, but not in the last couple years... great... I do NOT play the song.... working just from my MEMORY, I ATTEMPT to re-create the melody on the computer... 99 out of a 100 times, I completely FAIL at this, yet somehow always 9 times out of ten, I come up with SOMEthing new this way... and no one yet has ever "picked out" the song I started with.

I dont have pitch ears; I dont know the original scale; I cant hear the chord progs... so, its pretty "safe" for me, LMAO


I find the computer GREAT because I can take a completely new scale I have NEVER worked in, and start "noodling" in it... working on guitar, your fingers will tend to work in your "familiar" scales you are used to playing, and hearing... which is usually drop D, blues, or pent Min...

Personally, I find it a "little harsh" to call "moving an original song around" to try to get something for yourself out of it... a bad thing...

especially if your starting out, its a great way to train your ears and impose "established structure" until you get used to it, and I think of my early stuff where I did that kinda like "training wheels". The training wheels come off one day, they always do... we all started with them...

I mean, beginning writers "imitate" a famous writers style, until they find their own "style".

I mean, beginning comedians first tell OTHER peoples famous jokes and imitate their routines... then they write new jokes, but in the style of their hero comedian... eventually, they develop their own style.

and, if you REALLY want somethign completely off the wall? for melody writing? You might have been writing in "homophony" all these years... look up "counterpoint" on Wiki... (wink!) counterpoint has been known to be the "oh!... THATS what I have been trying to do... heh heh" for some people...

a "straght melody" line can be really direct and cool... counterpoint has certain advantages (and disadvantages...)...

I am recently learning how to use a balance of the two, and things seem to be getting better....

A further word on "cribbing" or "stealing"... Beatles were WELL known to for instance take a classical chord prog, run it backwards from its opriginal order... and call it their own "genius work"

Michelle Branch was "caught" cribbing melody snippets from "the masters", and she laughed and owned up to it...

LOTS of very famous musicians have done it, and will continue to do so... my "armchair" theory is if you DO wanna steal a famous chord prog, use it with yer own melody... if you DO wanna crib a tiny bit of a famous melody, make it a small section of an "obscure" piece, and fashion the REST of the melody yourself, and then pick your OWN chord prog, then write hooks, riffs, and solo's all original based on that...

I'm "100% original" now for at least 2 years... but stuff like that gave me my start (not that I'm anything yet, trust me, LMAO)


BUT... if you ARE going to crib "anything"... aim high! why steal solid gold, when you can steal the crown jewels and platinum? (in other words, steal classical bits... 'cos then they say "inspired by..." instead of "you stole the melody from...", LMAO)

PS - dementedchord? I like your critiques, you seem rather accomplished and authoritative based on your writing about stuff... I think myself, and perhaps this guy here, could benefit from you posting some totally original stuff, that we might learn from it.

Gecko zzed graciously let me hear his original stuff, I loved it, and kind of studied it... I would like to study your stuff as well. I personally would like to benefit from hearing development in an all original classical piece properly done, as i freely admit I am lacking in that area... this guy would prolly like to hear some more modern pop/rock kind of thing. hey, we're the students man... we gotta hear how its done properly... Up until now, Geck is the only classical stuff I ever heard put up on here, I could USE someone else's original stuff as a guide, eh? 2 teachers are better than one, for me, anyways... this cat has some kinks vocals thing going on, h would prolly like some more "american roots of rock" kind of thing...
 
dementedchord said:
imo... the steal and vary idea is idiocy of the highest order... great if ya wanna become that which you stole...
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Blowin' In the Wind...etc etc...stolen melody/ inspiration from other things/ very similar to....etc....the blues tradition....you're way way off dementedchord. You don't know what you're talking about old son.
 
"imo... the steal and vary idea is idiocy of the highest order... "


ok so that was a bit harsh perhaps... but i think the idea still holds true for the most part... it seems to me that all the great themes haven't been written yet... all the notes have not been used... (on a psyco-acoustic level)... my primary thoughts were really geared towrds making others think... and that's accomplished so...
 
Composition conventions

Motive, inversion, interval change, retrograde . Motive= short phrase, one bar long or less. Inversion= motive inverted. Interval change= motive with one note altered. Retrograde= motive played backwards. Classical music is built on these conventions i.e., Beethoven's Fifth symphony and Moonlight Sonata. Jazz players use these same conventions to build improvised solos. Dedicate some time each day to experimenting, noodling, dallying, screwing around, goofing off, otherwise improvising off the top of your head. You will soon build a repertoire of licks to weave into melodies and solos.
 
I was taught some of the basics of musical theory as a kid when I was learning my first instrument.

I think it pays to remember that the rules were written for the consideration of wise men...

In theory, if you are unhappy then to show that you should have a long face or be crying, but that's not always the case is it..

Learn the rules by all means, how can that be a bad thing, but they can be broken. Use your ears. Does it sound good/right to you? If it does, it is.
 
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...

Gtarman59 QUOTE:"NOBODY is 100% original--NOBODY"

Okay, but what I meant was that for the last 2 years, I am sitting down...

making a melody idea, and not using someone elses "magic chord prog", and just making up melodies on my own, and then just building and workjing around it...

meaning, I was not trying to use someone else's "great song framework"

eh, you know what I mean... lol

no... using a 145 chord prog is anythign BUT original, and heck, at that point, why do we use scales? (harmonic theory, lol)

I just mean, I listn to the radio, and I hear a lot of stuff that a LOT of it sounds alike, when you hit a point like that, "originality" or whatever "passes for it" is thrown out the window... heck, would be nice to hear a singer that doesnt sound like 10 other singers, yuo know? lol...

When I was younger, I heard a lot of "good" music, that seemed complex. I learned those pople had classical training. SO... I decided I had to learn at least a LITTLE bit of classical composition before I tried anythign else.

A lot of the "genre" material is really becoming "a formula" I think.

you got your creed singers... yu got your "green day bands"... Heck, even the minimalist acoustic guitar and soulful ballad is a lot of times becoming so commonplace its almost contrived... the whole "rap over heavy metal rhythm guitar" thing is done to death now...

*urp*

I cant be the only one that wants to hear som classic ELO, some old Queen, and classically trained musicians arranging "complex stuff".

I know there's nothing new under the sun, not really... but, this formula-genre stuff is getting beat to death. I wonder how many serious musicians ar being told "aw... get a cute singer and learn to do THIS... THIS sells records... THAT crap is old school high brow stuff that puts listeners off..."

which is a great dis-service. For me, anyways. *shrugs* I LIKE some high brow in my music... maybe "progressive" can make a comeback. WOuld be a refreshign change...

so, if there isnt 100 original possible... we could at least STRIVE to get as close as we can, eh? lol
 
I dropped out of music school

I didn't mean to get all highbrow with the classical music compositional conventions but it's a good place to start when crafting melodies. The rules aren't just for smart people and they are meant to provide a guide to work from. Really good composers can break all the rules with great results. Just look at Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring". It caused a riot when it debuted and now it's the convention that modern movie soundtracks are modeled after. Music appreciation and listening classes expose you to a broad range of music. Analysis class shows you that a few basic fundamentals go a long way. Composition class let's you score pieces that can be performed. These building blocks and fundamentals are stepping stones that help develop the skill to compose interesting music.
 
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