Group Buy Interest?

[vicenzajay]

Got it...

You will loose headroom when you turn down the output like you did.
If you want max headroom (lol I just had a flashback of a the dude from the 80's)

OK , where was I? Ah yes max headroom, turn the output all the way up and turn the gain down.
Think of the "output" knob as a passive fader. It will allow you to crank the input for more saturation if you need it. But at the expense of higher noise, possible clipping, low output, etc. Kind of like a guitar amps "gain" and "master" knobs.
Generally, leave the output all the way up unless you want to use the pre as an effect.
Now, if after doing that you still have issues, you might have to use a direct box, or if you have low impedance high output pickups, try the line input or an external DI. The pre itself has quite a lot of headroom if you're using proper levels. Active pickups may be too high of an input level for the DI to handle. There is a difference between gain staging and headroom.

I was using the wrong terminology....you are correct, of course. What I was trying to say was that with BOTH maxed out, I really did not have that hot of a signal at all. The 75% up got me to a point where I recorded well; however, the additional 25% didn't buy much more at all. This is with the input gain completely up. Bottom line is that I don't have this problem with either the N72, the FF preamps (straight DI input), the Onyx preamps (straight DI input), the A&H preamps or the low end ART/Presonus preamps I have....so your statement:

"The pre itself has quite a lot of headroom if you're using proper levels" might be true for your unit - but not for mine with the DI input. There is simply not as much "juice" available for recording levels. Mind you, I had no issues with the normal mic input headroom - so I'm not being "negative" about the preamp itself...something is not, however, "right in Denmark" with the DI input on the unit. Thus my questions.

Also - still looking for input regarding the line/mic switch and its interplay with the DI input. It just doesn't make sense that it should have anything at all to do with whether or not the DI input will pass signal through the unit - yet the DI input is only active when "line" is selected. Very strange.

Jay

 

[ausrock]

Of course everyone's allowed their opinion.

Thank God for that, for a moment you had me worried

a)How about putting it out in PUBLIC instead of private PM's. b)The inuendo created by not publicly stating your opinion, but instead c)saying "please check your PM's" is laughable.

a)FFS, what's wrong with wanting to keep either confidential information and/or further opinions/speculation out of the thread. Following on from one of Noisedude's posts, I'll c&p this (opinion) from that PM.........".........I strongly suspect that 797 were already committed to their existing pcb designs and have chosen not to incorporate the "PMI mods", hence the problems that some people are experiencing."

b)Sorry but any perceived innuendo is in your mind.

c)You have a twisted sense of humour...........as someone who qualified as a (hypno/psych) therapist over 20 years ago, I seriously suggest you seek professional assistance ASAP.

There is no proof on this planet that will convince you.

To the contrary...........the problem is that there has been no actual proof forthcoming, even 6 months ago, when presented with the opportunity to put a stop to the rumours and speculation TnC were ominously silent and the few words that were said were terribly unconvincing. Anyways, you and I bounced this ball around back at the time and I was quite happy to "allow" you your opinions without passing comment, it's a shame you can't extend the same courtesy......you must be feeling somewhat unsure of the validity of your opinions.

 

[dgatwood]

Well, I finally started testing my pres. I haven't gotten around to trying the 81s yet. On the 73s, I can hear a tiny bit with the gain cranked all the way open. At least from what I can tell through headphones, the hum does not appear to be sensitive to EQ settings in any way, as expected (I think).

I thought that the DI on one of my 73s was dead. Turned out I'd turned the output gain all the way down to test the input hum on the pre and forgot to turn it back up. In the meantime, I spent a couple of hours tonight going through the schematics, tracing the signal at various points and being completely unable to figure out what was going on. Not sure why it suddenly hit me what was wrong....

Anyway, a few notes from the experience:

1. Regarding the hum, I noticed that the main board (probably other boards as well) uses the case support studs as grounds in various places. I would not be at all surprised if this practice were at least partially responsible for some of the hum problems that people have experienced. Worth adding a rework wire from a nearby solder joint to a real ground if you're having problems with humming.

2. The first thing I had to do when trying to trace the signal through the main board was to cut the wires to the main power LED. Seriously, what kind of @$$hole hard-wires an LED to the main board of a device and then glues the LED to the case!?!?!?! Chance, please make sure that in future versions of this hardware, the power LED is hooked up with a connector. (On one of mine, it already is. )

3. Crude tip for debugging hardware like this: tape a wire to the ground on a pair of headphones, then screw the other end of the wire into the shield of a 1/4" plug and plug that into your input so you have a semi-solid ground for the headphones. Then, touch the tip of the headphones along the signal path and listen for sound.

 

[drBill]

c)You have a twisted sense of humour...........as someone who qualified as a (hypno/psych) therapist over 20 years ago, I seriously suggest you seek professional assistance ASAP.

LOL That's rich.....especially coming from you. I'd rush right out and seek professional help, but you're my favorite internet psychotherapist. Having anyone else speculate about what's going on in my mind would be such a letdown.

Cheers,

bp

PS - BTW, I do have a strange and somewhat dark sense of humor though. That's why your posts always make me laugh. On second thought, it may not be my sense of humor making me laugh.....

 

[dgatwood]

Regarding the design, at least on the 73, several of the boards have a mask date of 12/20/2007, which was a couple of months after Chance first posted about the pres. Obviously, I can't tell you what was changed in that revision or the extent of those changes, but unless they post-dated their board masks, these were definitely fabbed for the group buy.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

I was using the wrong terminology....you are correct, of course. What I was trying to say was that with BOTH maxed out, I really did not have that hot of a signal at all. The 75% up got me to a point where I recorded well; however, the additional 25% didn't buy much more at all. This is with the input gain completely up. Bottom line is that I don't have this problem with either the N72, the FF preamps (straight DI input), the Onyx preamps (straight DI input), the A&H preamps or the low end ART/Presonus preamps I have....so your statement:

"The pre itself has quite a lot of headroom if you're using proper levels" might be true for your unit - but not for mine with the DI input. There is simply not as much "juice" available for recording levels. Mind you, I had no issues with the normal mic input headroom - so I'm not being "negative" about the preamp itself...something is not, however, "right in Denmark" with the DI input on the unit. Thus my questions.

Also - still looking for input regarding the line/mic switch and its interplay with the DI input. It just doesn't make sense that it should have anything at all to do with whether or not the DI input will pass signal through the unit - yet the DI input is only active when "line" is selected. Very strange.

Jay

I haven't really used the DI portion of the preamp. So what better time than now?
The DI does only function when line level is selected. If we had the schematics it would probably be really evident why that is. My speculation is that they left the original N circuit intact and piggybacked a DI in front of the line input.

Using my guitar with passive Duncan humbuckers I can clip my coverters on the 3rd gain setting (output all the way up).
I'm not sure why you are having the problem that you are. I suggest trying a different guitar and cable.

 

[ausrock]

LOL That's rich.....especially coming from you. I'd rush right out and seek professional help, but you're my favorite internet psychotherapist. Having anyone else speculate about what's going on in my mind would be such a letdown.

Cheers,

bp

PS - BTW, I do have a strange and somewhat dark sense of humor though. That's why your posts always make me laugh. On second thought, it may not be my sense of humor making me laugh.....

So glad I can give you a laugh......seriously. I did mean to insert a few more "smilies" as my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek but while typing that response I was also typing an email reply to our companies' CEO................just gotta hope he didn't get your "smilies" . That said, intended humour included, I was serious in my comments concerning things other than your mind.

Take care.

ChrisO

 

[mshilarious]

There's no UL sticker or stamp on the unit, but it does say Caution-risk of electric shock-do not open.
So in theory they're covered if you get hurt/electrocuted by opening it up. But that brings to mind the supposedly successful lawsuits by the guy that cut off his foot using his lawn mower as a hedge trimmer, or the guy who fell through the skylight and broke his back while breaking and entering a school through the roof.

That's the basic problem: products liability isn't based solely on negligence (see 'strict liability'). So even if the manufacturer did properly disclose the risk of opening, if there is found to be a defect, the warning effectively means nothing. A manufacturer cannot disclaim their warranty against negligence.

In this case, if TnC is actively encouraging customers to open the units and repair defects, the warning is legally even more meaningless. And under a strict liability doctrine, proximity of contract is not required to successfully recover damages for injuries suffered due to defects. That is, if somebody resells a TnC preamp to someone who did not participate in the group buy, and that second owner is injured, they can recover damages from the manufacturer for their injuries.

I should point out that TnC is in CA, which is the state that originated the legal theory of strict liability, and is probably still one of the most difficult states for manufacturers. I sincerely hope that no one is ever injured (has house burn down, other rack gear on the same circuit damaged, etc.) by a TnC product, but if such an event occurs, given the extensive evidence of product defects and the lack of testing documented in many places online, it wouldn't look too good for TnC in court. And the fact that the manual offers a warranty (and TnC's name is on the product) means that Chance's theory of being a mere agent for the group buy members I would think is very unlikely to prevail.

That's what Alan is talking about. There is no real protection against any of this, other than buying products liability insurance. The UL testing I imagine is mainly a device to enable purchase of such insurance, either affordably or at all. Of course, the test itself will require a minimum level of safety to help prevent actual injuries in the first place.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so don't construe anything above as advice other than to seek a real legal opinion.

 

[MCI2424]

797 makes so many mics and pre-amps and compressors etc. that are sold under tons of different names here in the States. What made anyone think that these pre-amps or mics would be magically better? Really, people went a bit overboard and some bought units in the ten to twenties. This group buy (like all others) was a gamble and like any gamble you can lose. So many got a case with a bunch of parts. This is a great learning experience for modding. I say what the hell, I am opening my ribbon mic now to tinker.


I am looking forward to the next group buy, but I am probably the only one?

 

[antichef]

I should point out that TnC is in CA, which is the state that originated the legal theory of strict liability, and is probably still one of the most difficult states for manufacturers. I sincerely hope that no one is ever injured (has house burn down, other rack gear on the same circuit damaged, etc.) by a TnC product, but if such an event occurs, given the extensive evidence of product defects and the lack of testing documented in many places online, it wouldn't look too good for TnC in court. And the fact that the manual offers a warranty (and TnC's name is on the product) means that Chance's theory of being a mere agent for the group buy members I would think is very unlikely to prevail.

That's what Alan is talking about. There is no real protection against any of this, other than buying products liability insurance. The UL testing I imagine is mainly a device to enable purchase of such insurance, either affordably or at all. Of course, the test itself will require a minimum level of safety to help prevent actual injuries in the first place.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so don't construe anything above as advice other than to seek a real legal opinion.

Everything you said is essentially correct (I may or may not be a lawyer - actually, I'm a cat with a cowboy hat who does not provide legal advice), and certainly the field of products liability is a treacherous place, particularly depending on where the suit takes place (California's tough -- Alabama and Texas are not too nice either, more because of juries than because of state law) -- but if you consider all the circumstances in this situation plus what seems like the fairly low risk of something serious occurring, I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it -- that is, when you consider the risk of actual harm along with the risk of a lawsuit (which includes the probability of a large recovery (which includes many factors including the assets of the defendant, the likely perception of a jury, etc., threshold issue of Chance's role (e.g., logos,etc.=retailer, but other factors cut against that designation, etc.))) and hypothetically adjust for different scenarios (UL listing, etc.), you may be staying in the same general risk neighborhood. This is all blowing smoke, of course -- I believe/suspect/hope that TnC had some actual advice from a lawyer (everybody in CA has one or two, right?).

I am looking forward to the next group buy, but I am probably the only one?

I looking forward to it -- the only thing making me hesitate is that I kind of have a lot of mics and stuff now

 

[MCI2424]

So, I just re-tensioned the ribbon on the mic motor and will test later.

The ACM900 has really good machined parts. The fit and finish of all parts are pretty damn decent. The mic really weighs and makes an SM57 seem wimpy.The screws are good quality as well as the soldering. The aluminum flight case is not cheesy nor the elastic suspension. In fact, the elastic suspension is probably the best quality one I have seen in a while.

The power supply cable is not made of crappy cable and connectors and the power supply is a solid piece with good fit and finish.

Except for the ribbon flopping around in the motor, I think this mic is made pretty top notch and easily compare to many higher priced mics out there.

The sound is the only missing part. With the ribbon now tightened, I will find out what the mic really sounds like. If it sounds good, I might want to get another (if there is ever another group buy that is)

 

[markitzero]

I am looking forward to the next group buy, but I am probably the only one?

I definitely am. I just hope next time (if there is one) that everyone is made to agree to a Group Buy EULA so everyone understands everything and there can be no bitching after the fact.

 

[Creamyapples1]

I definitely am. I just hope next time (if there is one) that everyone is made to agree to a Group Buy EULA so everyone understands everything and there can be no bitching after the fact.

There will always be bitching* after the fact. No EULA on Earth will change that.

 

[markitzero]

There will always be bitch after the fact. No EULA on Earth will change that.

True. Less ambiguity would be nice, though... for the good of the group buy and future group buys.

 

[Creamyapples1]

True. Less ambiguity would be nice, though... for the good of the group buy and future group buys.

Agreed.

My only complaint (and it's not really a complaint) about the whole thing is that there wasn't sufficient lines of communication in place to handle the scale of this group buy. Not anyone's fault, per se`, but next time I would suggest taking a few volunteers and/or offering a free mic or something to a few guys who can communicate on the regular with Chance and provide updates and answer questions on a case to case basis. A system of communication could probably have spared us a few hundred posts in this thread and a whole big bunch of headaches and bickering.


As far as the gear goes, I'm completely satisfied with what I've recieved and the price I paid for it. My Ribbons from the first group buy sound good to my ears and the pres from this GB haven't suffered the same fate as several of the others. I had a little problem with Randy's online check feature in the UC but Chance has assured me that it will be addressed as soon as time will allow and by now his word is as good to me as money in my pocket.

+1 for Chance.

 

[WhiteStrat]

I am looking forward to the next group buy, but I am probably the only one?

Nope. You're not the only one!

 

[nuemes]

there was a thread recently on PSW about a studio fire started by a defective powerstrip

A quick note along those lines: I live in a windy area where power outages occur a few times a year as well as electrical storms. Based on that (and the fact that I'm a tad OCD regarding safety) I unplug any power supplies leading to any equipment after use. Even toasters (which are notorious for starting fires).

Unplugging your music gear after use is a good practice, period.

 

[bigtom]

I'm definitely up for another group buy.

Wasn't there something in the user console when you first paid, stating that that you were taking a risk being a participant in the group buy. I completely understood what I was getting into and have no gripes at all. I've been waiting on this group buy for over 18 months and now am waiting some more to see what fixes there will be.

I'm as happy as a pig in mud ( pigs aren't happy in their own shat )!!

 

[Yonce N Mild]

I'm really happy with my gear so far. I bought a 73 to use as a bass DI and it is perfect for that. The ACM-3 through the ACMP-73 is totally bad ass for recording distorted guitars.
I'm not sure what I'm going to use the 1200 for. It doesn't really suit my voice, maybe after modding. I used it to record the rain outside my window the other day and was really amazed at the detail it captured.
I also had good results with using it in omni as a room mic for drums. The 200 I got might work as a vocal mic for me. I haven't had enough time to mess with it yet to say for sure.
All in all I am very pleased with my purchase and thoroughly enjoying playing with my new toys.

 

[thetwlo]

One concern with future group buys-- many Chinese factories are closing, even the one that made all(most?) the Mackie gear. Just a thought, we could pay and then they could go under was a risk before of course, but with all the recent closures.... Is there any way to get insurance?