tone help

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CDMAmutt

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hey, I own a mesa boogie .50 caliber head that I play through an old school mesa cabinet. now I've been having a hard time finding a good tone out of this head. I'm new to tube heads & have a lot to learn, but I've had the head for almost 6 months & still can't get what I want out of it. generally, the problem is the clean channel having more "oomph" than my lead. I play in a punk/metal back, but don't want the rectifier sound. I want something cleaner, but heavy enough to suffice. we're entering the studio pretty soon & want to be using my own stuff. does anyone have any experience with this head & can offer some settings to at least get it sounding good & adjust from there? should I be pushing the head harder? because 2.5 is usually loud enough for shows & any more than that tends to get me bitched at. if it helps, my primary guitar is an epiphone SG with an invader at the bridge & the stock 57 at the neck.

also, I have problems with lead boosts. I own a digitech bad monkey overdrive that gives me needed gain, but doesn't boost the signal. I've tried a bunch of a friends boutique pedals also & have the same problem. maybe I need a new head?

PS. the power tubes & preamp tubes are 6 months old.
 
Did you replace the tubes yourself or did someone else do it? I suppose it might be a biasing issue in the lead section. If you have channel volumes and a master volume, use those to even things out. A tubescreamer is a great boost pedal if you are looking for one. Anyway, good luck.
 
This might noit be at all relevant, but how are you EQing the lead channel on the amp?
 
hey, I own a mesa boogie .50 caliber head that I play through an old school mesa cabinet. now I've been having a hard time finding a good tone out of this head. I'm new to tube heads & have a lot to learn, but I've had the head for almost 6 months & still can't get what I want out of it.


Sounds like you bought the wrong amp.

From what you are saying, it sounds to me like you want a Marshall. I may be wrong, but it is certainly worth trying.

Probably not what you want to hear, but if you haven't been able to get there with an amp after fiddling with it for six months, it's probably not your amp.

One other suggestion - instead of using a really big amp and turning down the master volume, get a smaller amp which doesn't have a master volume, and crank it up. I'm guessing what you are missing is power tube distortion, which is much different from the preamp tube distortion you get from a Mesa Boogie. When you want a cleaner sound, back off on your volume control a bit. It won't actually make you quieter (at least, not much), but it will clean up the sound. I know that sounds weird if you aren't used to power tube distortion, but it really works.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
You know, Light, someone on one of the other posts said he felt like he shouldn't have said anything after you responded. I bow to you, oh wise one. How did you come to know everything and how can I do it?:)
 
You know, Light, someone on one of the other posts said he felt like he shouldn't have said anything after you responded. I bow to you, oh wise one. How did you come to know everything and how can I do it?:)



Well, I don't, but I don't usually say much when I'm clueless. I guess that does sometimes make me unusual on the Internet. Or maybe I just know when I'm clueless? :eek:


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
well, the tubes were replaced by the place I bought it from, guitar center, so biasing might be an issue, cuz I know they don't know shit (once tried to convince a friend of mine that OLP is exactly the same as a music man). how much does that generally run?

I was EQing with mostly scooped mids, which I know is a bad idea, but I couldn't really tell the difference. this amp has a lot of mid range regardless of setting. I'm going to try setting the 5 channel equal to just about the middle, boost the mids to 10 & cut out some of the bass & treble.

yeah, I've tried a lot of marshalls, but they sound too muddy to me. their clean channels sing though. I want something inbetween the JCM 2000 & rectifier sound. I've liked randall's distortion a lot, because every chord has a lot of balls to it with out sounding too nu-metal-like, but their tube heads are too expensive & they lack sustain. my big problem is that I sell the thing & find out that I wasn't dialing it in right or that the tubes needed biased, therefore never hearing how this amp truly sounds.

I've also tried rolling back the volume & using guitars with less hot pickups, but have the same result.
 
Here's the thing. If an amp is going to give you "your sound," it should do so the second you plug in. It might need a little tweaking, but the core of the sound should be there. If that's not happening, it's the wrong amp. I know it's expensive, but once you find your amp, you'll be very happy you gave up on the wrong ones.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
You might want to try "the boogie board". You can google it. It's dedicated to Mesa owners. I'm not all that familier with that amp but I have heard sound clips and it sounded very good.

There very well may be something wrong with your amp.

Today I went to guitar center and was stoked the moment I got in and saw they had a Road King 2 combo. I have the Road King 1, and the Road King 2 supposedly had better clean channels.

So I plugged into it and it sounded like total crap. I set it on channel 4, the highest gain channel and set it to modern and it really sounded bad. Not near enough gain.

Obviously, this amp was broken. But to someone who did not own virtually the same amp, they would have thought it was just a bad amp. I told the guitar center rep and he looked at me kind of odd and was like "are you sure?".
 
yeah I'll have to check out that board. do you have a link?

I couldn't seem to find any sound clips. I found youtube videos of people playing the combo, but they didn't really seem like they knew how to get good tone. it was hard to tell, but it sounded like they were still getting better tone than me, which is disheartening. biasing was suggested. whats the price range of biasing?

ocnr, not too sure what you wanted me to get from that video except to buy a carvin legacy.
 
yeah I'll have to check out that board. do you have a link?

I couldn't seem to find any sound clips. I found youtube videos of people playing the combo, but they didn't really seem like they knew how to get good tone. it was hard to tell, but it sounded like they were still getting better tone than me, which is disheartening. biasing was suggested. whats the price range of biasing?

ocnr, not too sure what you wanted me to get from that video except to buy a carvin legacy.

http://forum.grailtone.com/

I know the name doesn't look it, but it is strictly a Mesa site.

Again, you might want to have a tech check it out. I was really shocked when I plugged into the Road King 2 at Guitar Center. It sounded really bad. But it wasn't lacking any volume, so someone may have plugged in and just thought it sucked. I don't know what was wrong with it, but it didn't sound anything like my roadking.

Mesa's are notorious for taking time to dial in. But in the end, as another poster suggested, it may just not be the right amp for you.

The nice thing is it's a mesa, so you probably won't lose a lot if you sell it. Hel you might even make a buck or two.

Good luck!
 
Here's the thing. If an amp is going to give you "your sound," it should do so the second you plug in. It might need a little tweaking, but the core of the sound should be there. If that's not happening, it's the wrong amp. I know it's expensive, but once you find your amp, you'll be very happy you gave up on the wrong ones.

+1. The character of an amp is what it is. Play with the EQ section a bit and push it until it breaks up, and you pretty much know what the amp will do.

Of course there are mods you can do to some tube amps that can change their stripes, but that's a whole 'nother thing.
 
okay, well I'll try there. I'd just hate to trade away an amp if I'm not hearing how it should sound. if it is then, hey, at least I have a decent trade in.
 
I just bought a Mesa and learned some stuff.
If yours is like mine, you'll need to learn a new way of thinking about tone controls. Try turning them all to "zero." If your sound goes away, even though the volumes are turned up, then they are like the ones on my amp. If this is the case, try much lower settings than you would on another amp. Maybe turn the treble to 10 0clock, and the mid and bass much lower.
As an aside, I also had to put a compressor in front of the amp and turn the output up very high, slamming the front end of the amp, before mine really woke up. I love it now!! If you don't own one, borrow one from a friend and try it out... I bet you'll like it!

Peace!

~Shawn
 
If you don't own one, borrow one from a friend and try it out... I bet you'll like it!

Peace!

~Shawn



Considering one of the primary thing I want out of my amp is great dynamics, I would HATE that setup. Which is not to say it doesn't work for you, because obviously it does, but it's not for everyone.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
I just bought a Mesa and learned some stuff.
If yours is like mine, you'll need to learn a new way of thinking about tone controls. Try turning them all to "zero." If your sound goes away, even though the volumes are turned up, then they are like the ones on my amp. If this is the case, try much lower settings than you would on another amp. Maybe turn the treble to 10 0clock, and the mid and bass much lower.
As an aside, I also had to put a compressor in front of the amp and turn the output up very high, slamming the front end of the amp, before mine really woke up. I love it now!! If you don't own one, borrow one from a friend and try it out... I bet you'll like it!

Peace!

~Shawn
Mesa's are known for taking time to tweak as the controls just behave and react differently then most amps. It's hard to explain. Suffice to say there can be a big difference in tone between 11:30 and 12:00 on any of the nobs.

A few months back I had saved up enough money to get a new amp and was looking at a Mesa Recto-verb.

I went into Guitar Center and the closest thing they had was a Roadster.

I plugged in and absolutely hated it. It sounded like fuzzy flabby garbage. I was stunned that this was the amp I heard such great things about, especially since it was a much higher end model then the one I was looking at buying.

So I went to the Mesa Board and posted there asking how I could setup and Roadster to get a sound close to Recto-verb. I also expressed how poorly I thought the amp sounded.

The guys there gave me some settings to try and suggested possibly throwing an overdrive in front of it.

I didn't bring an overdrive but went back to GC with the settings they had given me and it made a world of difference.

1. My biggest problem was setting the gain at about 2:30-3:00. Recto's (or any other Mesa from what I have heard) are pure tube overdrive. No clipping diodes. The plus side is that you get beautiful natural sounding distortion. The down side is that there is enough play in the gain knob that you can easily push it into flubby garbage, where as clipping doides would turn into pure fizz. Now I run my gain no higher the 12:30.

2. I had the channel preamp volumes to high. I had pushed them to about 4:00 thinking this would give me a better preamp overdrive, but just as the gain gave you enough rope to hang yourself, so did the channel volume.

These first two by themselves had the amp singing. Real tight bass metal sound. I found more stuff though.

3. The higher gain mode I switched it, the more I needed to back off the treble. Conversely, the lower gain modes required a boost in the treble.

4. At bedroom volumes it sounds very good, but there is a little fizz to the distortion. This fizz disappears when you crank it. Very thumping quick attack. Mesa's are biased very cold and are built to come into there own at about drummer level. You will find Marshall's also don't sound there best until cranked as well.

In the end I lucked out and found a killer deal on a Mesa Roadking combo which is the big brother to the Roadster.

My current setup I plug straight into the amp and run boss GE7 eq into the effects loop.

That is it. No pedal to boost it. I tried but I felt it colored my tone and took awar from the fire breathing recto sound.

I have since gone back to GC and played on that Roadster and had one of the GC employees ask me not to change the settings I set it up with. He said it was the best he ever heard that amp sound.

Obviously these guys were clueless setting up an amp (as was I originally setting up the Roadster), but I still like GC. You can walk in and let them know right off the bat you have no intention of buying, and they will still pull out the ladder and grab you a 3000$ Les Paul to screw around with.

Sorry for the rant. I just love talking amps :-)
 
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