mixer sends and returns

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suprstar

suprstar

It aint ez being green
Why, WHY would mixer manufacturers make mixers with a stereo TRS inserts send/return?? WHY???? Do they think we like f'n around with splitters?? :mad::mad::mad: I got a million cables at my house, all TOTALLY worthless atm. If they're so worried about saving 1 jack then why don't they combine aux's, master outs, or anything else?

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well, do remember first that an insert out isn't stereo just because you're using a TRS connector. It's still a mono signal coming from a mono channel. The tip and ring just do different tasks. You still send mono and return it as mono. As opposed to auxes that may send mono but return stereo...or master outputs that send stereo.
 
I know it's mono, I didnt mean 'stereo', just TRS. My beef is that I can't find a cable with trs on one end and dual ts on the other. So now I am using a radioshack TRS->dual RCA adapter to a set of RCA cables, then little RCA-TS converters. It's just retarded, why couldn't everything just be TS jacks all the way around? I can't imagine how this bacame standard.... I now have 7 points of contact to hook ONE channel up to my rack
 
I know it's mono, I didnt mean 'stereo', just TRS. My beef is that I can't find a cable with trs on one end and dual ts on the other. So now I am using a radioshack TRS->dual RCA adapter to a set of RCA cables, then little RCA-TS converters. It's just retarded, why couldn't everything just be TS jacks all the way around? I can't imagine how this bacame standard.... I now have 7 points of contact to hook ONE channel up to my rack
What's so difficult about running down to your local GC or Sam Ash (or cheaper yet, ordering over the Net) to get an insert cable? Better yet, get yourself a spool of wire, some bulk connectors and a soldering gun, and you can have any cable of any kind you like of any length you like for a lot less than what you paid for those millions of TS cables you have lying around unused. But complaining that you want to use a channel insert but have only a million non-insert cables is kind of like complaining that you want to make chicken soup but you have nothing but beef broth in your pantry :).

There are differences between Insert *taps* and Aux *sends* (note the different nouns used there) that play into the jack choice, I believe. First, an Aux send is just that, it is a one-way trip out as far as that channel strip is concerned. All one needs to run a short unbalanced aux send is an unbalanced cable, hence the TS jacks. And, importantly, one has no idea where the return may be coming back in, if at all. it could be coming to an Aux return, or a separate channel strip input or not at all (like on a stage monitor send.)

Inserts are taps. They tap into the channel strip's signal path. This requires the capability for send and return from and to the same location. But you knew that. I assume you're asking why don't they just use two TS's, one send and one return? Besides it taking up twice as much space per channel strip I/O, and requiring twice as much hardware that takes longer to assemble in the factory? Remember this is a real consideration when you have to multiply such size and cost increases by the number of channels strips you have. And don't forget, you'd have to double the number of cables you used as well. With Aux sends, the use of separate send and return is *necessary* because the return could be anywhere or nowhere. With inserts, why go though all that when it's not necessary and can all be done with one cable and one jack?

Second, when you have a rack or two or three of gear and/or a patch panel the size of a window screen, it's a hell of a lot easier to insert this EQ or that compressor if you only have one cable coming from that device to plug/patch.

Third, and my favorite from a usage standpoint, the one-click/two-click method of selecting between a simple signal tap and a full signal diversion is tough to beat for elegance and simplicity. Using a simple TS, you're either plugged in all the way and interrupting the signal path, or you're not. Sure, someone could design a circuit that would allow switching between the two modes, but that would take up even more space, cost just that much more per channel, and be that less elegant in actual use.

G.
 
The way I see it there are a couple of choices here. You could just go get the correct cable, commonly referred to as an insert cable, or instead you could just go buy a new board that has balanced sends and returns on each channel. Just so you know, consoles that do have seperate sends and returns are often quite a bit more expensive than the Mackie you are probably using. You decide....
 
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