GHAH! (neck setup problems)

  • Thread starter Thread starter FALKEN
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FALKEN

FALKEN

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GHAAAH!!!

I've been trying to set up this guitar...its the tele deluxe with the vintage style 3-bolt strat neck. The problem I am having is string buzz. I was recording and heard a strange distortion. I swapped out everything..cables, amp head, cabinet, mic, preamp, channels, room... It's fret buzz.

I have re-set the neck. The neck angle is perfectly straight. The action is a bit on the high side... the neck has an extremely slight relief...basically as straight as its going to get. I lowered the pickups just to be sure they aren't interfering. There don't appear to be any frets sticking out. Basically everything is setup perfect but I still have fret buzz. Its on the middle 4 strings no matter where I'm fretting at. Since the action is high, it seems like the buzzing is coming from just one or two frets up, no matter which fret it is. Is there something about these necks?? I dont get this!! Its driving me INSANE!!!

Any help?? thanks!
 
Try putting a little bow in the neck. They shouldn't be perfectly straight. Fret at the first fret and (approximately) the 13th or 14th. There should be about a playing cards thickness between the top of a fret in the middle and the bottom of the strings (lets say, oh, about the seventh fret or so).


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
These sorts of buzzing can be the most tricky to track down.

This might be your clue.
Its on the middle 4 strings no matter where I'm fretting at.
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As light says check your neck relief first. before you do get a small straight edge, a Stanley blade or similar and place over three frets and test the fret hight to see if any are high. Do it by rocking the Stanley blade any high frets and the blade will rock or you'll see a gap under the centre fret if it's low. Check all frets. If it's buzzing right up the neck thats not likely the problem but it's worth checking.

Couple more questions. Does it buzz on the open strings? What action have you got? Measure from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string at the 12 fret and at the first.

If increasing the releif doesn't help. then it may not be a fret problem at all. Some buzzes from saddles, truss rod, tuners or any loose parts can sound just like a fret buzz. Tighten everything down and look first at the bridge and saddles. Play a note and put push the saddles with your finger to see if that helps. Same with the tuners. A buzz like you describe if it isn't a fret problem would most likely be on something connected to the strings in question so work there first. Body buzzes can be a bastard to track down so keep looking an evrything that may be loose. I'd be particularly suspicious of the saddles.

No luck with the neck relief of boby buzz solving the problem report back.

Good luck
 
thanx for the help! I loostened the truss a bit and put some more relief into the neck. Like magic, open chords are now nearly buzz free. However I still get buzzing on 100% of the notes above the 12th fret and I think power chords played around the 7th fret are worse than they were before, which seems to make sense. ??? I tried clamping down on the tuners and bridge while I play. I had suspected that they were rattling as well, however these adjustments I have been making have had effect on the noise so I still think its fret buzz.
 
I should also mention that the problem isnt specific to this guitar. I have a handful of guitars that I brought in to the tech before I started my latest recording project. They all came back with super-straight necks and super-low action and not intonated properly. So I am re-doing myself. I do like the lower action though....it just sounds like garbage. Is there any way to get both low, fast action and be buzz free?
 
FALKEN said:
However I still get buzzing on 100% of the notes above the 12th fret and I think power chords played around the 7th fret are worse than they were before, which seems to make sense.
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Maybe you've reset the neck at an angle too far back. If you sight down the neck, where would it intersect the bridge (near the top, middle or bottom)?

FALKEN said:
I do like the lower action though....it just sounds like garbage. Is there any way to get both low, fast action and be buzz free?
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Unfortunately, it's a tradeoff.
 
crazydoc said:
Maybe you've reset the neck at an angle too far back. If you sight down the neck, where would it intersect the bridge (near the top, middle or bottom)?


Unfortunately, it's a tradeoff.
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Thats worth looking at. It does seem a bit of a worry that it's happening on more than one guitar. Are these all guitars that the tech has setup?

What other guitars are you having similar problems on? The Truss rod should be acting on the neck form frets three through ten but it does depend on the neck and the type of rod. The higher up the neck you go the less the rod has an impact.

If you put a long straight edge, such as a foot long steel rule on the neck from the high frets to around the seven fret, is there a hump or dip anywhere?

If the strings are buzzing above the seven fret of higher the obvious thing is that the neck is choking as the truss rod is having less effect higher up the neck. Two things to consider. One is neck angle and the other is now too much relief. They do interact as well.

To set up correctly you'd set the relief first and then the break angle. Have a good look at the relief the neck has and where it is. Use a straight edge to check it all the way to the top. You want just enough relief between frets three and twelve to allow the neck to play well but not so much as you introduce a high spot at around the fourteen to twenty fret where the rod has less effect. Its hard to advise exactly as every rod is different. I've seen fender rods that start under fret three and others that start under fret one. Same at the other end, tightening can pull on some guitars at the low end of the neck and not at the top. Set the relief as Light says with about a "playing cards" gap between frets one or two and ten to around twelve. Ideally beyond that the neck should be pretty flat. The break angle will then come into the equation. If the break angle is too steep the strings will choke, as seems to be the case here, to much the other way and you action suffers.

Can you get a low fast action? Yes, but it is the result of setting everything up in relation to everything else. You need to have the frets dressed just right, the relief just right and the break angle or bridge hight just right, in that order.

Have you considered asking the guy who did the setup in the first place what he did and why?
 
thanks for the replies. I confirmed the neck angle by running a straight edge from the last few frets to the saddles, and on both guitars I am currently working on (both with the same problems) the straight edge meets the saddles just under the strings. About in the middle of the saddle. So I figure that's good. I suspected that the end of the neck was raised a bit but I measured the string height along the neck and it is the same everywhere above the 10th fret. I set each string to clear 2/32nds of an inch at the 17th fret, after making truss adjustments. So far I am very close...I can get it to record nice and clean if I am plucking each string Extremely lightly. Otherwise (normal playing) the buzz is present. I am wondering if I should keep messing with the truss, or If perhaps it is the strings I am using. I use 10s, and I am starting to wonder if this is the exact reason guys like dick dale and stevie ray vaughan do/did use like 13s.
 
I listened back to some earlier recordings and this sound was always there. This is insane. I have set up the guitars to what I believe is the "standard" setup... slight relief, good neck angle, "normal" string height...... The best I can describe the sound is actually a combination of several sounds. The first is a low rumbling buzz which occurs on the A and D strings which is from a slight vibration against the frets. This buzz will ring out with a chord or a note and is most prevalent in the upper registers. The second sound is from the pick attack, and is also a fret buzz, only this one is staccato, and sounds like clipping, mostly on the low E and A strings. The last sound I'm still not entirely sure is real or my imagination. it is on the higher strings, epecially the high E string. It is from touching a fret, and causes the strings to have additional harmonics that should not be so pronounced....almost sitar like. All of these sounds I have heard (except for the last one which could just be me going crazy) with the guitar unplugged. So I am sure that it is not a problem with my signal chain. It has taken me several days and apparently maybe even years to hear this sound in my playing. If I play extremely softly it goes away. Too soft for rock n' roll. One sharp pluck and its noise city.

Another problem is that notes fretted below the 12th fret are slightly sharp and those fretted above the 12th fret are slightly flat.

I am thinking that heavier strings might be the answer to both problems. I have tried higher action and more relief and it doens't seem to do the trick. I did switch to lighter picks and that seems to be helping a bit. These problems are occuring on two different guitars, both with 10 gauge strings. What kills me is I know there are kids out there using like 9s and getting perfectly clean tones with extremely low action and stay perfectly intonated with floyd roses no less. :D Anywayz this has been a soul searching time when my entire tone might be changing if I switch strings and all but I was just hoping for some advice and direction because this is one of those moments where I am in a recording rut and going completely bonkers.
 
I had a cheap assed Hondo bass guitar that had a buzz that drove me crazy. I adjusted saddles and the truss to no avail. I narrowed it done to the point that I knew it was the tuning keys. They were tight...but just buzzed.
The only fix (short of installing new keys) was wrapping a bandana around the headstock..it fixed the buzzing.

diagnosis is the tough part...fixing the problem onced diagnosed is usually the easy part.
 
I have a nashville deluxe....similar problems with fret buzz. Is it MIM?
 
not sure of origin, I assembled it myself...nobody can comment on switching string guage?
 
FALKEN said:
not sure of origin, I assembled it myself...nobody can comment on switching string guage?
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Going heavier will maybe help a bit but only because you'll have to raise the action a bit. You need to get to the root of the problem. I was going to post later as I'm a rushed off my ass in the workshop today. Hang in there...
 
I have the solution for your problems with that guitar!!.....















































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FALKEN said:
not sure of origin, I assembled it myself...nobody can comment on switching string guage?
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If you assembled it yourself, you may want to check your neck pocket dimensions. Just a thought. Also, with tele bridges being so low to the face of the body, you may want to try a slight upbow rather than a backbow.
 
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