What is cue? still a newbie, first recording mix

[yetipur]

Hello,
I have a complicated question , and it is regarding cue. What does cue do? and how do you use it?

We have a 2 track 1/2 inch reel that was mixed down onto a Fostex E-22 2 track master deck from a E-16 16 track Fostex.
We played it back on the master deck, it sounded great. We loved the mixes they were perfect....so we thought.

we sent it off to get mastered and the mastering guy hears a bunch of drum solos unrelated to the song (songs) coming out of the right speaker. and he hears the whole song in mono coming out of the left speaker
so he sends it back to us .

we then put the reel back on our 2 track we hit repro left repro right and it sounds fine, just like it always did.
and we dont hear any drum solos coming out of the right speaker like the mastering guy did.
Then decide to connect a cable into the cue and hit the repro for cue and wala! we hear all these drum sounds.!!
So now my question is what is cue?? The manuals dont say and I am lost

were we supposed to have cue engaged when we were mixing down??
can those drum sounds be erased now after the fact?
They are only audible when cue is engaged.

Those drum sounds were obviously already on the tape prior to our mixdown onto that tape, we never knew they were there.

Our machines are old and the manual doesnt explain what cue is.
Its an E-22 2 track fostex analog reel to reel .
so we have to remix or can we save this mix ?

 

[vadoom]

I think its a feature to be able to bypass something through something or other... Or send something to somewhere else... Used that feature about 10 years ago on a Tascam 4 track. The details are blurry now...

 

[Raw-Tracks]

The cue track is generally used for timecode in situations where you need to sync your 2-track to timecode.

It sounds like a few problems are at play here. First, the tape wasn't blank before you printed your mixes. It sounds like that tape may have been previously recorded on another machine. It also sounds the heads may have been out of physical alignment on your E-22.

What machine was the mastering engineer playing back on?

 

[The Ghost of FM]

On a mastering recorder, the "cue" track, as you are calling it was mostly used for recording time code so the recording could be locked to video or other sources such as other audio recorders, or midi sequenced parts.

If the deck has facilities to record on that track then just erase that track with the level at zero and that should do it.

Does the deck have 3 ins and 3 outs along with 3 meters or is this some other type of configuration?

Cheers!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Also...

Another solution is just to lend your machine to the mastering engineer.

Cheers!

 

[yetipur]

Hello again,
thank you thank you for the replys! Heres more info

Yes those drum sounds were already on the tape before we mixed for sure, we did not record them.
The machine the master guy is using is a 2 track studer.
Our 2 track is a E-22 fostex and it is possible that our head is out of alignment, it is in the shop getting aligned right now. ( I hope this means we can still play our reel when we get it back)
as far as the connections

okay there are XLR in's and out's on the back for Left right and Cue

then on the front panel there are 3 VU meters : left, right , and Cue
also on front there are knobs and push buttons

repro left
repro right
repro cue

input/out -knob left
input /out -knob right
input -knob cue (no output knob for cue though)

the drum mess that doesnt belong in the song can only be heard when the cue repro button is engaged. and it seems to be taking over the right speaker . But when the cue button is off our song comes out of both left and right speakers normally.


So are you saying we can erase those drums out of there?


My other question is,
are you ever supposed to use cue when mixing down? I am pretty sure we never engaged that feature when mixing down, we just had left and right going.
so the drums were just buried there on the tape bbefore we ever mixed and like I said , you can only hear them when the cue button is engaged. we had no idea it was there, until the mastering guy said it was.

 

[Beck]

Our 2 track is a E-22 fostex and it is possible that our head is out of alignment, it is in the shop getting aligned right now. ( I hope this means we can still play our reel when we get it back)

Unfortunately not. If the heads are so far out of standard spec that the Studer is unable to reproduce the tape correctly then the tape will reproduce incorrectly on any properly aligned deck, including your newly aligned E-22. That is, assuming the Studer at the mastering facility is right or that’s even the main issue.

Another possibility:

The cue track on the E-22 is a thinner center track that is compatible with standard half-tracks. However, not all half-tracks will necessarily have the exact same track width on the main left and right. So, if that tape was used on a multi-track and the E-22 has slightly narrower tracks than the Studer, you can get residual material being picked up by the slightly wider Studer tracks.

Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to record with used tape with an unknown history, unless it's your own used tape that you opened new and are using again. In either case a tape eraser (degausser) is a must-have in the studio.

 

[jpmorris]

Oh dear, oh dear. What you should have done was erase the timecode track before getting the machine realigned.

The only real alternative is to have the engineer dis-align his machine to the same spec as the tape, which he can only really do if you left test-tones on it, and I doubt he'd be happy about doing that.

It might be possible to recover the situation by dis-aligning yours to match the timecode track again and erasing it, but you run the risk of damaging the recording if you don't get it dead on, and you'll have to re-align the machine to 'normal' spec again afterwards.

In all honesty, you might have to re-mix the album, preferably using fresh tapestock

One day I must get a test tape and find out how far out of it my TSR-8s are. I'm a bit frightened of getting them serviced for this very reason...

 

[theblackBay]

seriously i'm nowhere with tape..

but I'm working here from the standpoint that a signal was being sent to a left and a right speaker somewhere and you were listening to it in Stereo when you said it sounded fine.....

My friend, at that point i would have outputed this stereo signal recording (which was probably dual mono?) (but if it sounded fine then it's all good) to something, anything else probably digital and then give that to the master.

then fix your problem and use the digital as your pre master.

i've no idea what Cue is in this case, on a Digital Tascam 464 it was a timecode track.
oh the other guys said that.. analouge rocks.

but that was a long time ago and i was probably drunk.

 

[FALKEN]

yo I have an E-22. The "cue" channel is a 3rd channel that sits right between the L and R. It is very thin and not too useful for recording sound. If the tape was originally used on another machine that would be how the sound got there. I tend to erase my tapes on two different machines (4 or 8 and 2-track) before using them. the situation your mastering engineer encountered is definitely strange though!!! the center timecode track should not have taken over the entire right side! Maybe a little bleed but...I would question what is going on there!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

Another solution is just to lend your machine to the mastering engineer.

Cheers!

This is actually your only solution. That or start your mastering project over again from scratch.

Realigning your heads on the Fostex won't help you because of the previous project done on a different machine with it's own unknown track width format so if the tech hasn't started his work yet, get him to stop and get your machine back!!!

And next time, work with new tape only.

Cheers!