Do you always set-up a click track with your "client"?

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drummerboy_04AP

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It seems like it would be pretty important to do, especially if its a solo artist who dubs in. How do you go about this? Do you just have them come in the day before they record and go over the tempos and timings?

Im not in a professional studio or anything, but Im curious just for when I have my friends and whoever come over and record. I just want to know the best way to go about this.

Thanks.
 
I always set up a click just so I can piss off the drummer straight away;) LOL
I think today's Daw systems have immense capabilities, and playing to a click is very important to mixing "in the box" as it were. That being said, most of the world's best recording were done without it. If I'm doing the arrangements and tracking instruments, there will be a click track because I don't feel confined by it. If it's someone else's dime, I'm open to whatever makes them play their best.

Oh, and if you are indeed a drummer, I'd recommend getting comfortable with the click, if you expect to do sessions for major recording companies that actually use live drummers.
 
In my experience, it really depends on the person.

Every time my band has ever done any recording, we have always done it to a click, but there are many drummers who absolutely get thrown off by it. I will not say that the fact that they are unable to play to it makes them a bad drummer, but the majority of the time the tempo will sway.. The band typically never notices it as they are used to the tempo changes, but it always makes me cringe..
 
Normally the prostitute gets the rhythm right without a click track... in fact, they often think its a little odd. But, good timing on the drums, good timing everywhere else...

As for recording, I use a clicktrack if there is going to be any sort of overdubbing. If an artist is insistent on playing freeform, then I would suggest having them record a bed track, and then immediately try some test overdubs. If they don't come out well due to timing issues, just tell em - "If you don't play to a click track, it will all sound like this".
 
So, when you do set up a click track with an artist, how do you go about it? Seems like it would take quite a while to figure out how many bpm they want each part of their song at.
 
I always recommend a click. If the band is resistant (normally because someone is afraid to work with a click) I ask them to at least try - pointing out the advantage related to overdubs, etc.

Often they find it's not that big of an issue (although every once in a while someone will have waaay too much trouble trying to play to the click - in which case I turn the click off). If the client makes a fuss - I'll back off (it's their dime).

I just did a session last week involving a song with three different tempos (it was written that way) and no logical way to program the click to smoothly accomodate the three tempos (at least not in a way that would feel musical) so....we just jammed it out (I was engineering and laying the drum tracks).

I've done sessions where everything was recorded and then they wanted me to add drums (or replace the drums) with no click track - almost every time the song tempo moves around and then I have to speed up and slow down. It's a pain and it simply runs up the cost (it can be hard to nail a song in 1 or 2 takes when the tempo is all over the place).

For the vast majority of recording projects I think a click makes sense - and I feel every musician (not just drummers) should be able to work with a click.
 
If you're recording on a PC there's nothing that says you have to record all the sections to the song as one continuous take. So you could stop and start the recording and fit it up later.

Another way to do it if you have the time, is to create the entire track with midi parts. Have a tempo track set up which changes the time of the whole project then get the drummer to play along with that. Like I said though, it is time consuming but may well be worthwhile.
 
For my band we make midi guide tracks first (on guitarpro), but yeah making a midi guide track can be more comfortable than just a bare click track.
 
I never let them play to a click (almost never), I just let them play like they are used to and let it go with the flow. A certain 'wave' in the music is no problem. Anyway, I record to two inch so there ain't no thing like beat detective and soundreplacer possible.

Some things seem like god but in fact are the devil who kills music.
 
Han said:
I never let them play to a click (almost never), I just let them play like they are used to and let it go with the flow. A certain 'wave' in the music is no problem.
Click to expand...

What happens though, for instance you come to do overdubs and the guitarist just can't match the timing on the track because it's off? Just because you record to tape doesn't mean you can't use a click or tempo guide track. Although obviously it's not built into the hardware so is less easily available.

2" eh? I love it, but it's getting hard to find tape. We have a 2" at uni - it's really great to be able to turn up to a prospective employer and say "I know how to use it. Oh and I can align the bastard too" :D
 
well...i personally would much, much, much prefer to use a click on just about everything, aside from recording a live band in the same room. many people, however, don't want to spend the extra $$ in the studio to watch me program a tempo track...i think they feel as though it's money wasted.

if they only knew that often times, 1 hour of programming a click will save 3-4 hours of mixing headaches later on, more people would be apt to spend the extra $30-40 in the 1st place.
 
As a drummer: I hate the click track. For me I like to groove and if I need to slow or speed the song up in certain spots it throws me off to hear the click go at a different tempo.
As a Producer: It is easier to do certain things with the click, but if the band doesn't want it, then the band doesn't want it. Remember you're there to serve them. I normally just ask.
 
pezking said:
What happens though, for instance you come to do overdubs and the guitarist just can't match the timing on the track because it's off? Just because you record to tape doesn't mean you can't use a click or tempo guide track. Although obviously it's not built into the hardware so is less easily available.

2" eh? I love it, but it's getting hard to find tape. We have a 2" at uni - it's really great to be able to turn up to a prospective employer and say "I know how to use it. Oh and I can align the bastard too" :D
Click to expand...

I can sync Cubase to tape, program four clicks in midi en move them in the right spot in order to lead the guitarist to the first stroke of the bar he is about to play, easy, piece of cake atually. Actually the groove is most important and clicks kill grooves.

And yes, I can align the bastard. :D
 
Han said:
clicks kill grooves.
Click to expand...

That's quite a general statement. Maybe it's based on your experience with the drummers you've worked with, but it's an opinion that shouldn't be presented as a fact.

Clicks kill grooves for drummers who haven't practiced ebough with a click. A good drummer who can play to a click will groove as good as one that doesn't use one, and maybe better.

Tell Steve Gadd clcicks kill grooves.:eek:
 
RAMI said:
That's quite a general statement. Maybe it's based on your experience with the drummers you've worked with, but it's an opinion that shouldn't be presented as a fact.

Clicks kill grooves for drummers who haven't practiced ebough with a click. A good drummer who can play to a click will groove as good as one that doesn't use one, and maybe better.

Tell Steve Gadd clcicks kill grooves.:eek:
Click to expand...

Agreed, depends on the kind of music actually, don't use clicks in a jazz kind of music. But in general I believe a drummer should practice with clicks but record without.

Even if you program a click it will stay on xx bpm, change to nn bpm and stays there, go back to xx bpm and so on.

Okay I've used clicks in the form of a bongo sound to record a seven minute folk ballad, but these guys were extremely good and that bongo sound was very softly used as a guide. In case I notice that the band is leaving the click I stop it at once.

Music first, everything else is of minor importance, oh well.
 
Han said:
Agreed, depends on the kind of music actually, don't use clicks in a jazz kind of music. But in general I believe a drummer should practice with clicks but record without.

Even if you program a click it will stay on xx bpm, change to nn bpm and stays there, go back to xx bpm and so on.

Okay I've used clicks in the form of a bongo sound to record a seven minute folk ballad, but these guys were extremely good and that bongo sound was very softly used as a guide. In case I notice that the band is leaving the click I stop it at once.

Music first, everything else is of minor importance, oh well.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The main thing is the final result; the song, the groove, the feel, and the performance. How you get there is probably different for everyone. :)
 
I think there is a distinction between a groove and musical flow. By that I mean, some music that is groove driven does require a steady bpm. A good drummer who has learned to play with (or rather around) a click, can play a little behind the beat on a verse and a little ahead of the beat in the chorus (which allows the music to breath) yet the groove (at a set bpm) is consistant.

Now some music needs to flow - meaning the actual bpm may vary from section to section (sometimes significantly). In this case a click is a hinderance. Naturally, trying to overdub on a song where the bpm is changing can be very challenging (click or no click) - and it is normally best to record as a group.

That being said, a drummer who indicates that a click prohibits the groove simply does not know how to play around the click. Often drummers feel they must be a slave to the click - trying to hit exactly on the click (in which case, they do indeed lose the ability to breath with the music). However, if you learn to work with (and around) the click (and often a midi groove using conga, clave, etc is easier to play with than a basic 1/4 note click) - a click does not compromise the groove it actually fortifies the groove.

I've been drumming for over 50 years (40 years as a gigging musician) and the 1st 20 plus years we never used click tracks. When clicks started to become the norm - I like most drummers first exposed to a click (dispite 20 years experiance) had a hard time playing to a click. As a result, I lost some session work (to drummers who had learned how to lay to a click). I said all the same crap "the click sucks the life out of the music" "I can't groove", etc. - Well it didn't take me long to figure out that instead of complaining about it - I better figure it out or I wouldn't be getting session calls.

I most cases - a click is not a bad thing!
 
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