Do you always set-up a click track with your "client"?

  • Thread starter Thread starter drummerboy_04AP
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Yea, I am in the same boat you are with the rampant overdubs.

My brother came to my apartment a while back with his girlfriend because they wanted to record some stuff for some songwriting contest he was entering.

He plunked down with an acoustic in front of the mic, and I started setting up something for her to sing into, and he said "I wanna do things separate". So I said fine.

Did a song, then tried to overdub the vocals - timing nightmare. Much to his shock, I told him we'd have to use a click, and after much squabbling, he finally agreed to it. Especially when he told me he expected me to overdub piano, more backing guitars, mandolin and percussion. Lots of overdubs? Probably gonna need a click.
 
In programs like MOTU's Digital Performer you can add clicks after the fact.

What you do is drag the barlines around to match the recording. That way you can add a click to performance that was recorded free. I've done that quite a few times and it works well.
 
i've been starting to the same in cubase myself...instead of calculating the bpm's for a certain passage, then entering that into the tempo track and recording my scratch to it, it's been getting more common for me to record 1 or 2 measures, then "stretch" the tempo to fit what i just recorded
 
In programs like MOTU's Digital Performer you can add clicks after the fact.

What you do is drag the barlines around to match the recording. That way you can add a click to performance that was recorded free. I've done that quite a few times and it works well.

Then surely your clicks are just as out of time as the original drum track, which, unless you quantize the drums to match it, defeats the point of using a click.

I've literally just come off a 4 hour session in which we got sod all done because the drummer couldn't play to a click, so we went without. But then the guitarist couldn't play along to it due to the tempo fluctuations. I don't have ProTools HD so can't use beat detective across all my drum tracks and I'm not into cutting up every hit, moving them about, and doing all those crossfades manually.

Sure if your drummer can keep perfect time, great - your sessions will always go wonderfully well. I've told the drummer from this particular session (he also happens to be a mate of mine) that it really is a skill to play to a click and that it's a valuable one to have. I recommended he get a metronome and practice playing with it. It will make recording for him in the future far less stressful and more time efficient.
 
Then surely your clicks are just as out of time as the original drum track, which, unless you quantize the drums to match it, defeats the point of using a click.

In fact, I haven't used that technique on drum tracks. I've put in click after the fact to piano performances I've recorded that I intend to add orchestrations to later.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I would just use a drummer who has good time. If a drummer has bad time he will not be able to play to a click very well either. It's really not the recording studios' fault if the drummer and guitar player can't play together, and it should be up to technology to attempt to solve such a situation. The band should have worked all that out long before they went to record their songs.
 
I'd like to meet the drummers you're talking about. Do you have any clips of them?

I can't tell the band I'm tracking to get another drummer cos this guy is human. At the same time I don't have the space to record the whole band at the same time, and I don't necessarily want to.

I don't think that there is a single drummer who can reproduce exactly the same timing take after take; that's not human. I play with some very talented musicians at uni and when I was at school but they're all human. Let's say the band play a track and it naturally speeds up at a point. The gradient of that speed change won't be the same every time. And whilst the drummer is trying to keep a steady beat going he speeds up or slows down (not so that you'd notice when listening back, but when you come to overdub it's a bitch) but his hits still remain in time with respect to each other.

I'm not saying a click is always the way to go, but quite often, when doing overdubs it helps immensely and without it, the whole track could possibly fall apart.
 
My general rule of thumb is;

Drummer plays from first measure of first take of song - no click

Anything else is case by case per the song structure and the players. If I hit a situation where we wish we had a click either at the beginning, or in a break in the middle of the song for overdub count in, then I add one downstream, then slide it back.

NO drummer has absolutely perfect timing when subsequently laid out on a grid, so that discussion is a matter of degree. If they did, well it would sound like a midi drum track with 100% quantization applied - ick! Tempo only? Yeah, that's going to drift to some small degree with any drummer too over the length of a song, and it does if you try to lay a grid on some of the greats.
 
NO drummer has absolutely perfect timing when subsequently laid out on a grid, so that discussion is a matter of degree. If they did, well it would sound like a midi drum track with 100% quantization applied - ick! Tempo only? Yeah, that's going to drift to some small degree with any drummer too over the length of a song, and it does if you try to lay a grid on some of the greats.

Right. This is what I was trying to say. Good drumming does not mean absolutely metronomically perfect. Some grooves and some songs do not sound right if the beat is metronome-perfect. It might SOUND perfectly in time, but if actually WAS it would sound wrong.

I think drift is the wrong word. Drifting is bad. You've got to have a brain behind it, making the right choices about the beat.

I guess the drummers I'm talking about can play great to a click or without a click. It's a different thing though.

For a heavily overdubbed session you'd probably want to use a click, I can see that. But I do think some of the best recordings are made when the band comes in and lays down their tunes together as a group, and then puts in overdubs later.

Someone gave me negative REP for my earlier comments about the band working out their ensemble problems before getting to the studio. They thought my comments were "elitist". I just want to say that there is nothing "elitist" about the idea that a band should have their act together, should be able to play together, and shouldn't have to rely on technology to bail them out. That's not elitist, that's simply working class ethics.
 
you're right. the band should have their shit together before going to record even with a homerecording guy, but I've found most bands don't.

As home recording dudes, we are dealing with newbs most of the time. They are usually pretty young and/or inexperienced. I can't believe these guys in this thread can actually get them to record to a metronome. I've tried many times to get drummers to record to a click and most refuse to even try.

I remember helping one of my friends record his little project one day. The drummer sped up and slowed down on this one part every time, so we had a buddy of ours that just happened to be there hanging out that day count for him using his hand(conduct). It actually helped a lot.

Right. This is what I was trying to say. Good drumming does not mean absolutely metronomically perfect. Some grooves and some songs do not sound right if the beat is metronome-perfect. It might SOUND perfectly in time, but if actually WAS it would sound wrong.

I think drift is the wrong word. Drifting is bad. You've got to have a brain behind it, making the right choices about the beat.

I guess the drummers I'm talking about can play great to a click or without a click. It's a different thing though.

For a heavily overdubbed session you'd probably want to use a click, I can see that. But I do think some of the best recordings are made when the band comes in and lays down their tunes together as a group, and then puts in overdubs later.

Someone gave me negative REP for my earlier comments about the band working out their ensemble problems before getting to the studio. They thought my comments were "elitist". I just want to say that there is nothing "elitist" about the idea that a band should have their act together, should be able to play together, and shouldn't have to rely on technology to bail them out. That's not elitist, that's simply working class ethics.
 
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