Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[Toker41]

You're kidding, right?

Every 2nd post of yours here has the statement "You have no right to judge" in some form or another. In fact, earlier on, you quoted "Judge not, lest ye be judged" verbatim. In fact, it's a basic tenet of a lot of your posts.

And it's BS.

And furthermore, it's a big step from arguing that piracy is theft and theft is wrong to "bashing the people who steal". We bash that they steal. There *is* a difference, not that I expect you to grasp it.

How is it BS? That's a pretty poor argument.

You speak of morals, yet you pick and choose which you want to live by.

Again....."judge not..." is in the same book as "thou shall not steal". Not my words. You need to take it up with the author.

Reread the thread. There is plenty of personal bashing from both sides.

 

[darkcubus]

oh for gods sake, how can this thread end.

why don't i just incarnate you into all other people that you've some how affected, no matter how little, throughout your entire existence and transfer everything you've never even known you've ever caused directly into your mind. manifesting an opposite reality of you actually being the others and seeing the others affecting you.

thus causing everything anyone has ever done for money to have been done for absolutely nothing causing most of the planet to eventually die in the most horrible fashion imaginable because there's no currency for anyone actually working to stay alive.


or you can just decide to get a damn job so you can actually pay for something for once in your life!

END THREAD!

 

[Toker41]

I happen to have a very good job. 6 figures. You know nothing of which you speak.

Please tell me where I ever said I steal? Try reading the thread before posting next time.

Like I said, some people just want to attack others because they feel they are better than others, when they don't really know anything about that person.

Check it out....a Newbie with 27 post, crying about how a thread won't die.

 

[darkcubus]

not you, the thread!

 

[fraserhutch]

not you, the thread!

Don't worry, he has no clue, and thinks everything is about him.

 

[fraserhutch]

How is it BS? That's a pretty poor argument.

You speak of morals, yet you pick and choose which you want to live by.

Again....."judge not..." is in the same book as "thou shall not steal". Not my words. You need to take it up with the author.

Reread the thread. There is plenty of personal bashing from both sides.

Again, you apply your BS in ways that you wish. You are making judgments of me without knowing anything about me. You know NOTHING about my morals. NOTHING. Furthermore, you seem unable to grasp the simplest of concepts.

Here it is - I'll spell it out: I contend that it is bullshit to assert that we do not have the right, indeed, the obligation to judge piracy *and pirates*.

You have used the phrase "judge not" as a means to silence critics. And you state that you never did, to which I pointed out that you have many times in this thread.

You refer to the bible. Well, here's a little tidbit for you, the bible is hardly universally accepted. And even where it is accepted, it is relatively rare that it is accepted as absolute gospel. Personally, I do not. And furthermore, I would NEVER use the bible as something to hide behind.

I call bullshit. Again.

 

[microondas]

open source

Well, you also have the possibility of open-source software, www .linux-sound.org/ freely distributed, and may also support their creators with some bucks if you want to.

 

[Toker41]

Again, you apply your BS in ways that you wish. You are making judgments of me without knowing anything about me. You know NOTHING about my morals. NOTHING. Furthermore, you seem unable to grasp the simplest of concepts.

Here it is - I'll spell it out: I contend that it is bullshit to assert that we do not have the right, indeed, the obligation to judge piracy *and pirates*.

You have used the phrase "judge not" as a means to silence critics. And you state that you never did, to which I pointed out that you have many times in this thread.

You refer to the bible. Well, here's a little tidbit for you, the bible is hardly universally accepted. And even where it is accepted, it is relatively rare that it is accepted as absolute gospel. Personally, I do not. And furthermore, I would NEVER use the bible as something to hide behind.

I call bullshit. Again.

tg

But then you expect your moral view of "stealing is wrong" to be universally accpepted. So you are high and mighty enough to decided what morals everyone else should live by, but I am not? Which brings us back to "to each his own"

 

[Robert D]

Toker - Give Shrub (pres Bush) a call. He's looking for a new spokesman for his "there's no proof that global warming exists" argument.
I really don't get you. You seem intelligent, but you're like a piece of code stuck in a loop, unable to extract yourself from the illogic of your argument.
Stealing is bad, but saying that it is bad is worse. Judging people is bad, and people that judge people are bad, or they would be if you could judge them, which you can't cause that would be bad, only you did already, but nevermind that, you're sticking to your soapbox.
Whether it's your intention or not, you are in fact providing aid and comfort for thieves. People who steal software are people who hear what they want to hear, and they have plenty to hear from you in support of their actions. They are, for the most part, decent people who are easily swayed into thinking they're doing no real harm. If you don't know that they are in fact doing harm, you equally don't know that they aren't. But that's not what you're saying, and that's not what they're hearing.
It's because you sound intelligent that I'm addressing you. Your seeming intelligence lends credance to your seeming support of IP theft, which makes you a bigger harm than some idiot being emphatic about it being OK to steal.

 

[jjones1700]

I'm still using Cakewalk Home Studio 9 and Sound Forge 4.5 if that tells you anything.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Toker - Give Shrub (pres Bush) a call. He's looking for a new spokesman for his "there's no proof that global warming exists" argument.

RD, I thought of that analogy myself. It is very apt, as that is a case just like this where those that argue "there's no proof" truely belive that because they don't understand the science behind the proof, that there are definitive ways of proving something that go beyond the simplistic idea of a "smoking gun". We can also, by the reasoning of these folks, never "prove" that man actually did land on the moon, or that smoking is a leading cause of lung cancer in human beings.

They throw up things like "Harvard studies" to support their decision, yet when it is demonstrated that those studies actually say something different then they wanted or believed them to say, they then say those studies don't really prove anything.

Yet folks like this are perfectly willing to believe the wildly unsupported and unprovable crapola that Kennedy was murdered by the Federal Reserve Board. They believe that when the Chairmain of Sony media is quoted as saying that an inability to control the product his company puts out worries him, that that's proof of something far more ominous and menacing and conspiratorial than the simple and obvious fact that any company that can't control it's product cannot trust it's source of revenue, and that if it cannot trust it's source of revenue, it cannot guarantee staying in business. Christ, the time to panic is when somebody like the Chairman of Sony Media didn't worry about stuff like that.

Give it up. Toker falls back on the totally baseless argument that we can't prove anything - simply because he can't (or maybe refuses to) understand the sophistication of the proofs - and yet when held to the same test of "proof" claims he doesn't have to prove anything to anybody.

By his own signature reference, he's a joker, he's a smoker, he's a midnight toker, which he interprets as someone living the bohemian, devil-may-care life. He also, by his own delcaration in this thread, says he only comes here for his own amusement, that he really just doesn't care. He gives me positive rep points with the notation that my post was very well thought out and worded, and then turns around in public and shreds that same post piece by piece with no such acknowledgement.

He's just talking out of two sides of his mouth trying to jerk us around for his own amusement. He's not worth it. Put him on ignore and let this thread die.

G.

 

[jjones1700]

Wow, this thread has been raped and defiled beyond recognition. It is a shell of it's former self. RIP.

 

[Toker41]

Toker - Give Shrub (pres Bush) a call. He's looking for a new spokesman for his "there's no proof that global warming exists" argument.
I really don't get you. You seem intelligent, but you're like a piece of code stuck in a loop, unable to extract yourself from the illogic of your argument.
Stealing is bad, but saying that it is bad is worse. Judging people is bad, and people that judge people are bad, or they would be if you could judge them, which you can't cause that would be bad, only you did already, but nevermind that, you're sticking to your soapbox.
Whether it's your intention or not, you are in fact providing aid and comfort for thieves. People who steal software are people who hear what they want to hear, and they have plenty to hear from you in support of their actions. They are, for the most part, decent people who are easily swayed into thinking they're doing no real harm. If you don't know that they are in fact doing harm, you equally don't know that they aren't. But that's not what you're saying, and that's not what they're hearing.
It's because you sound intelligent that I'm addressing you. Your seeming intelligence lends credance to your seeming support of IP theft, which makes you a bigger harm than some idiot being emphatic about it being OK to steal.

You are right on one point. If I don't know they are doing harm, then I don't know that they are. This is the point I've been trying to make, and have stated many times. Since it can not be shown, without doubt, that they are, then the argument is weak, and gives the other side ammunition to punch holes in your case. It's debate 101.

I have NEVER supported the actions of people using illegal software, or music. I have stated time, and time again that it is wrong. I can't say it any clearer, yet because I won't jump on board with your reasons why it's wrong, you loop me in with the thieves. That boils down to control issues.

I say again, I never supported stealing. How many times do I have to say that it is wrong? I don't understand how this makes me "support stealing"? Simply because I disagree with your reasons, and your views on the reasons why it's wrong, but still agree that it is wrong, it makes me a thief by association? I can't tell you how this amuses me. Anyone that disagrees with you must be an idiot? Small mind you have there, buddy.

 

[Toker41]

RD, I thought of that analogy myself. It is very apt, as that is a case just like this where those that argue "there's no proof" truely belive that because they don't understand the science behind the proof, that there are definitive ways of proving something that go beyond the simplistic idea of a "smoking gun". We can also, by the reasoning of these folks, never "prove" that man actually did land on the moon, or that smoking is a leading cause of lung cancer in human beings.

They throw up things like "Harvard studies" to support their decision, yet when it is demonstrated that those studies actually say something different then they wanted or believed them to say, they then say those studies don't really prove anything.

Yet folks like this are perfectly willing to believe the wildly unsupported and unprovable crapola that Kennedy was murdered by the Federal Reserve Board. They believe that when the Chairmain of Sony media is quoted as saying that an inability to control the product his company puts out worries him, that that's proof of something far more ominous and menacing and conspiratorial than the simple and obvious fact that any company that can't control it's product cannot trust it's source of revenue, and that if it cannot trust it's source of revenue, it cannot guarantee staying in business. Christ, the time to panic is when somebody like the Chairman of Sony Media didn't worry about stuff like that.

Give it up. Toker falls back on the totally baseless argument that we can't prove anything - simply because he can't (or maybe refuses to) understand the sophistication of the proofs - and yet when held to the same test of "proof" claims he doesn't have to prove anything to anybody.

By his own signature reference, he's a joker, he's a smoker, he's a midnight toker, which he interprets as someone living the bohemian, devil-may-care life. He also, by his own delcaration in this thread, says he only comes here for his own amusement, that he really just doesn't care. He gives me positive rep points with the notation that my post was very well thought out and worded, and then turns around in public and shreds that same post piece by piece with no such acknowledgement.

He's just talking out of two sides of his mouth trying to jerk us around for his own amusement. He's not worth it. Put him on ignore and let this thread die.

G.

Ya know, I have tried being nice. The feedback was meant to show that this is simply a debate, and nothing personal, with no lack of respect. However, you keep insisting that it go a different way, and then publicly bash me for offering an olive branch. I assure you, the positive feedback will not happen again.
Gloves are off.


Stealing is wrong. Period. If the fact that I don't support YOUR reasons for it being wrong makes me a thief, even though I don't steal, then you, sir, simply want to throw stones at someone, and are looking for any reason to do so, be it valid or not.

The point of my view on that song (other than it has my name in it, which is why I use that qoute...don't know why I have to repeat this), is Live and let live. To each his own. Not "devil may care".

Stealing is wrong. We agree on that. However, since I won't agree with you on why it's wrong, I'm must be a thief, and idiot, and a doper. Am I really the only one that sees how ridiculous this is? So, anyone that doesn't agree with you can't comprehend a concept?

The President of Sony Records was stating that the industry is worried about illegal downloading because they can no longer MANIPULATE (not "trust") the consumer into buying what they deem as the next big acts. They can no longer limit what the consumers choices. The key word here is "MANIPULATE", not "trust".


And really, I can't state this enough....
....please learn how to SPELL!

Toker <~~~132 IQ. Honor student. 3.8 GPA. Graduated in the top 3% of the State. 3 years of Behavioral Science. 2 years of Law. Managed a major audio/video media distribution center. Was developing software before Windows was even an idea. Pilots Jets. Smart enough to know that the Federal Reserve is neither federal, nor does it have any reserve. And last, but not least.... CAN SPELL.
Question somebody else's intelligence, because you have no clue.

 

[fraserhutch]

As you're hardly immune to typos yourself, given your previous arguments against them, I'd lay off of the ad hominem attacks myself.

No one is calling you a thief. They're calling into question your arguments. That apparently escapes you.

Where is it that we state that you steal? What is apparent is your support of a person's right to steal, even if it is "wrong" by this society's standards.

 

[Toker41]

Glen,
You are right, I have stated, and still state, that I come here for amusement, entertainment, and stress relief. At least I'm honest, and don't claim to come here because I'm on a quest to "rid the internet of bullshit", like someone I know. I'll never make your ignore list, because, despite your claim, we are all here for the very same reason, and you find what you are seeking here. It's a recording site, and all of us have post that use it as such. We all have post that do not. Nobody is here to save the world.


...but, you go on with your bad self.

 

[skew_roxz]

wow what a cool post ..........well there tons of stuff on the market but which is better and what do you need for your studio it all depends on your situation and most of the companys provide a demo version so you can eval it which is a nice thing but leaves you with limitations and some have mentioned you can download them but its most always a striped copy leaving out effects of extra stuff including the ability to update it with fixes and added feature down the road..... on the other hand theres decent stuff that free or reletivly cheap like REAPER.. it has good coding and provides you with plenty of stuff to do most projects ive used all the differnt ones out there and they all have pros and cons but its just not the daw you have you have to think of your interface your system is only good as your weakest link

 

[Toker41]

As you're hardly immune to typos yourself, given your previous arguments against them, I'd lay off of the ad hominem attacks myself.

No one is calling you a thief. They're calling into question your arguments. That apparently escapes you.

Where is it that we state that you steal? What is apparent is your support of a person's right to steal, even if it is "wrong" by this society's standards.

I defy you to find, blatant, frequent, unintentional misspellings, in my volume of posts. I caught my typo (NOT misspelling), and edited it before it was pointed out by anybody else.


I don't support a persons right to steal it at all. They have not "right" to steal. I only point out to those throwing stones that it's ok to say you are against it, but not to attack, and judge those that do. How many "get a job", and "your a moron" replies are there to people that answered the question honestly, and openly? When someone states that they can't afford it, some here have actually had the nerve to believe they know enough about that person to tell them what their financial situation is. Taking offense to this, and finding irony in their lack of ability to see their own sins is what lead to the discussion we are in now. Nobody here has ever walked in another's shoes.
I also feel that the argument that the impact in sales is measurable is weak at best, and does more harm than good, as a lot pirates have a "screw the man" attitude, and many do it for no other purpose. Along with being unprovable, it tends to feed the troll.
The moral argument is the only real argument. This leads to my statement that it is also immoral to judge another when no such right has been charged to anyone here by any higher power, be it the law, or God. Hence the irony.

 

[Toker41]

wow what a cool post ..........well there tons of stuff on the market but which is better and what do you need for your studio it all depends on your situation and most of the companys provide a demo version so you can eval it which is a nice thing but leaves you with limitations and some have mentioned you can download them but its most always a striped copy leaving out effects of extra stuff including the ability to update it with fixes and added feature down the road..... on the other hand theres decent stuff that free or reletivly cheap like REAPER.. it has good coding and provides you with plenty of stuff to do most projects ive used all the differnt ones out there and they all have pros and cons but its just not the daw you have you have to think of your interface your system is only good as your weakest link

Reaper, and N-track are both good examples of really cheap recording software that is reliable, and top notch. They are also 2 examples of software that you will never find a crack for on Limewire. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[fraserhutch]

Actually, you might want to carefullly reread your post for the irony. I count 2 grammatical errors at quick count. I could also point out several of your posts here that have have spelling errors and typos. Not that I care, I just find it ironic.

To state that theft is wrong only on moral grounds is ludicrous. The morality it is based upon is derived from the way our society operates. The fact that you personally cannot measure the cost of piracy does not obviate the fact that it is theft of another person's labour. Who gave ANYONE the right to determine that they do not have to reimburse the developer for their product. Why them and not the next person? Why them and not I? You?

finally, I find the argument "is also immoral to judge another" ridiculous. I will call a thief a thief. They can try to rationalize it away, but that still doesn't change anything.

I defy you to find, blatant, frequent, unintentional misspellings, in my volume of posts. I caught my typo (NOT misspelling), and edited it before it was pointed out by anybody else.


I don't support a persons right to steal it at all. They have not "right" to steal. I only point out to those throwing stones that it's ok to say you are against it, but not to attack, and judge those that do. How many "get a job", and "your a moron" replies are there to people that answered the question honestly, and openly? When someone states that they can't afford it, some here have actually had the nerve to believe they know enough about that person to tell them what their financial situation is. Taking offense to this, and finding irony in their lack of ability to see their own sins is what lead to the discussion we are in now. Nobody here has ever walked in another's shoes.
I also feel that the argument that the impact in sales is measurable is weak at best, and does more harm than good, as a lot pirates have a "screw the man" attitude, and many do it for no other purpose. Along with being unprovable, it tends to feed the troll.
The moral argument is the only real argument. This leads to my statement that it is also immoral to judge another when no such right has been charged to anyone here by any higher power, be it the law, or God. Hence the irony.