Help me - Building a New Studio - Advice for Sound Isolation

[newatthis]

Hey all,

I posted this thread already on John Sayers site, they seem to be very well versed in this area, but figured I would put it on here as well for those who maybe dont visit that site, and have experience in building Studios. I have already searched, and read many many posts refernce this both sites, but still have some questions.

I am about to build a new Studio here at the house and I have to make sure I do this thing right. (All the reading sometimes confused me more, because all the different knowledgeable people on here sometimes say 2 different things>?)

So, this new Studio was supposed to be a separate 27X30 building out back of the house, but the local Borough said I will have to jump through hoops to get 3 variances approved, that I would need to build it, and they doubted that would happen. So,,,instead we all decided that it would be better if I just built the Studio as in addition onto my existing house. It would fit in better to the eye, and easier to construct (I think) but now I have a neighbor only 20 ft away to the one side. ;( That’s where the problem is. ;(

I have read and read and read on here as well as on other sites, and I have read books about recording and studios, and I am waiting on the book I just ordered “ Home Studio - Build It Like The Pros” by Rod Gervais. It’s on the way I can’t wait!!

But my main concern is the neighbors who are only about 20ft on the one side of my house. (Actually their house sits 20 feet away and to the front of the Studio addition. (The Studio tracking room area will be facing their back yard) Anyway, he is a Doctor and sleeps weird hours. The other 2 sides of the Studio will be all open to over 100+ft each way until you get to a neighbors, and the 4th side butts up against a decent size garage which should help with noise isolation to that side.

This room will serve 2 purposes. First and foremost to be a Home Recording Studio, and second (for when there is down time from recording) use it for live band practice (only using 4 floor monitors for vocals, none of the large PA cabs in the room and the musicians amps). I play in 2 bands, and so we will be practicing here as well.

You’ll see in the picture I will have a Mackie D8B to use for mixing, and beside it I will use my 24X8 Mackie for band rehearsals. I want to keep the 2 systems and gear totally separate in using them.

Now for the Questions:

1 – As you’ll see on the cheesy diagram I tried to make, the layout shows where the neighbor is located. At first I was going to build the Studio out of Block filled with sand, but now that it’s going to be part of the house, I will be stick building it.
I was going to do the “box in a box” type build, so hopefully the neighbors wont hear us inside the Studio. We typically don’t have a lot of outside noise in this neighborhood, so I just need to worry about what’s coming from the inside out. Is this “Box in a Box” concept going to do the trick??

2 – Would it be as effective if I only did the double wall thing on the wall facing the neighbors and maybe the rear wall (as in the picture) or should/do I need to do it all the way around (and I am including the ceiling as well)? (Man that’s going to get expensive…lol) I understand I am to also keep the inside box completely unattached to the exterior of the building,,,right?

3 – If I make the double walls (“box in a box”), how far apart should they be? How big an air space between them? Does a space of a couple inches wider make a difference (ex: a 4” space as opposed to a 6” space?)

4 - Instead of the Box in a Box concept, can I just use 2X6X8 base plates and top plates, and then stagger 2x4x8’s studs in the wall and fill it then with unfaced insulation. Then double or triple Drywall the inside wall. This obviously would be a much cheaper way to go, but would it work as well? I have tried to read the posted charts on here from other posts, and quite honestly I don’t fully understand it all. ;(

5- I know there is a difference between Sound Absorption and Sound Isolation, but will adding the 703 home made 4x8 ft absorbers (bass traps) around the room and in the corners and ceilings. Is this going to help with my situation once the Studio is built as to noise going to the outside world? (Obviously Bass and Kick drum are all I am worried about)

6- As far as the drum riser, do I even need one??? and if so, I will build it like you guys discussed in the other post about it being isolated from the walls and floor.

7- The double doors, in the double walls between the Tracking room and the Control room, do they have to both be solid core? Can maybe only one be, or don’t either of them have to be since they are both interior?

8- Now here is the kicker. My wife said “you’ll either get tired of the Studio thing, or move to another location in time, so build this thing so it can be converted later into a family game room with windows and doors etc”. I already said no to the skylights idea she had, but can I put windows in this building and still keep the sound in? Some say yes, some say no. Some say yes in the Control room but not the tracking room, others say ok to wherever as long as I use the double window angled theory. Is there a definite answer?? What if I just put windows on the side facing AWAY from the neighbors and left the neighbors side a solid wall?

9- I think I understand the MASS and AIR theory in that you don’t want a bunch of leafs in your wall construction. What I was going to do was: (exterior to interior)
Vinyl Siding (to match house)
4x8x 7/16 OSB shell
2x6x8 base plates
2x6x8 top plates
Staggered 2x4x8 studs
Weave unfaced regular thermal insulation throughout the 2x4x8’s
Leave front open
About a 6” Air Space
(then inside wall) Opened back of 2x4x8 framing and studding (facing the air space)
Insulate between them (unsure with what kind)
Then 2 layers of 5/8” drywall (each layer going the different directions)
Caulk all cracks and corners well and paint.

Would this do the trick or am I way off base??? ;(

I guess I should tell you a little more about this building itself, so it’s easier to answer my questions. It’s going to have a mono poured concrete foundation floor (footers and floor all are one). There will NOT be a separate foundation for the control room (again it’s only a home studio)
It needs to be “stick built” and will be 30ft deep and 24ft wide. It will have a high (almost 2 story) roof and ceiling. (I think the roof is a 9/12 (steep) pitch and the peak is about 2 stories high). The floor will either be carpet, or that fake hardwood floor stuff they sell at Home Depot, or mix of both (which one would you suggest is better)??
I will have several 703 sound absorbers made to be installed around inside both control room and tracking room (corners, ceiling, walls). There will also be a double wall between the tracking room and the control room with the double glass window. (and do they have to be angled when set in place, and how thick should the glass be and can you use plexi-glass?).

Any input to help me would GREATLY be appreciated. I want to start this project ASAP.


Here is my outline of proposed Studio: (furniture not to scale)

Thanks again and Peace
Aj

 

[newatthis]

....bump

 

[studiomaster]

dayymm....

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hello newatthis. Well, since you've asked here is my .02.
The diagram ain't cheesy newatthis. It performs the purpose well. However, I see some things that I'll comment on.

1 – As you’ll see on the cheesy diagram I tried to make, the layout shows where the neighbor is located. At first I was going to build the Studio out of Block filled with sand, but now that it’s going to be part of the house, I will be stick building it.

From reading your entire set of criteria, it becomes painfully clear that the #1 criteria is sound isolation from your neighbor who is only 20ft away.
If you had the budget for sand filled block for an exterior leaf in the first place, I would still use it, but for visual integration to the house, I'd fur out vinyl siding on the exterior to match the house. I believe, since you can't seal vinyl siding, this would become a VENTED third leaf, but thats only my NON EXPERT opinion. However, I would ALSO suggest having the footing(foundation) for the block, poured as a seperate intity from the slab. Although I know this is a home studio, your criteria for practicing with a live drummer at all hours with a neighbor 20ft away, almost demands this approach in my opinion.
But if this is not possible now, then to satisfy this criteria, it would seem you need a very robust solution on not only this wall, but the ceiling/roof assembly as well. However, there are many other considerations. Like your control room monitoring. How loud? From your diagram, it would seem that the wall dividing it from the garage would structurally transmit vibration to the garage exterior wall, but thats hard to say as you haven't described this assembly in detail. Personally, I would do things differently, but I'll still post an opinion to your questions first.

2 – Would it be as effective if I only did the double wall thing on the wall facing the neighbors and maybe the rear wall (as in the picture) or should/do I need to do it all the way around (and I am including the ceiling as well)? (Man that’s going to get expensive…lol) I understand I am to also keep the inside box completely unattached to the exterior of the building,,,right?

Again this is hard to say. Personally, with the criteria given, I wouldn't take a chance. I'd do it right(given the budget) and be done with it. Remember though, isolation IS expensive no matter how you look at it. The point is to design the cheapest assemblies that will do the job...and do it well. Hence my solution options.. Just remember I am no expert.

3 – If I make the double walls (“box in a box”), how far apart should they be? How big an air space between them? Does a space of a couple inches wider make a difference (ex: a 4” space as opposed to a 6” space?)

From my understanding, in a two leaf system, the airgap is the most important aspect when designing for LOW FREQUENCY TRANSMISSION LOSS. The bigger the gap, the lower the frequency you can isolate, and LF is your worst enemy. However, mass must be considered as well. In reality, make this gap the largest dimension you can afford to loose square footage. You might make the airgap in this wall between the neighbors, deeper than the rest, but again, I'm no expert.

4 - Instead of the Box in a Box concept, can I just use 2X6X8 base plates and top plates, and then stagger 2x4x8’s studs in the wall and fill it then with unfaced insulation. Then double or triple Drywall the inside wall. This obviously would be a much cheaper way to go, but would it work as well? I have tried to read the posted charts on here from other posts, and quite honestly I don’t fully understand it all. ;(

Personally, in this situation, I would NOT use staggered stud. Adding mass is good, but remember, doubling mass at best results in only a theoretical 6db increase in transmission loss. Yes its cheaper, but can you afford to take a chance? Here is another point of view. I think the best investment you could make is to HIRE an acoustical consultant to analyse your conditions and specify EXACT solutions per assembly(wall, floors, cielings, roof, connection details etc.)

5- I know there is a difference between Sound Absorption and Sound Isolation, but will adding the 703 home made 4x8 ft absorbers (bass traps) around the room and in the corners and ceilings. Is this going to help with my situation once the Studio is built as to noise going to the outside world? (Obviously Bass and Kick drum are all I am worried about)

No, absorption has nothing to do with transmission loss of the envelope. Unless the ENTIRE room was lined with 3-4 feet thick of absorption material, and even then, low frequency(really low impact noise) could still transmit through standard wall assemblies. Obviously, this is only my opinion. But I believe its in the ballpark.

6- As far as the drum riser, do I even need one??? and if so, I will build it like you guys discussed in the other post about it being isolated from the walls and floor.

This depends. IF, your slab is decoupled from the foundation footing that supports the exterior leaf framing, then no, you wouldn't need it. However, if the slab and footing are one entity, then I believe it would help, but ONLY if it is a FLOATED/DECOUPLED SLAB of concrete itself.
As an alternative, you could probably pour a seperate decoupled slab within the square footage of the floor slab, flush with the floor, by framing a form in a specified area at the time the forms for the footing are built. Then remove the forms from this area, place a decoupling material along the inside edge of this area, and pour the decoupled slab for drums. See my drawings as there are probably various ways to do this. However, I'll let the experts comment on my solutions as to thier viability.

7- The double doors, in the double walls between the Tracking room and the Control room, do they have to both be solid core? Can maybe only one be, or don’t either of them have to be since they are both interior?

That depends on your isolation criteria between control room and tracking room. Hollow core doors will allow mucho transmission, but do you care? Generally speaking, YES, they should. AND, they should have seals, thresholds, and sealed latchsets for effective isolation. However, in your drawing, your double wall between spaces terminates at one of the doors. I believe this will create a structural flanking path directly to the exterior wall, bypassing the double walls. But, again, my opinion only.

8- Now here is the kicker. My wife said “you’ll either get tired of the Studio thing, or move to another location in time, so build this thing so it can be converted later into a family game room with windows and doors etc”. I already said no to the skylights idea she had, but can I put windows in this building and still keep the sound in? Some say yes, some say no. Some say yes in the Control room but not the tracking room, others say ok to wherever as long as I use the double window angled theory. Is there a definite answer?? What if I just put windows on the side facing AWAY from the neighbors and left the neighbors side a solid wall?

Yes, but how much money do you have? Two leafs of 1" glass may have the same or better TL than the wall, but you have to DETAIL and SPECIFY the window assemblies BETTER than the wall/ceiling/roof. Remember the weak link syndrome. Why install a window with a LF TL less than the wall, and why build a cieling/roof with a LF TL less than the glass or walls. ALL assemblys must be a coherent TRANSMISSION LOSS WHOLE. Or you are wasting your time and money. The problem, is KNOWING what the sound level you will be generating, and designing EACH assembly to contain it, by building KNOWN RATED assemblies.

9- I think I understand the MASS and AIR theory in that you don’t want a bunch of leafs in your wall construction. What I was going to do was: (exterior to interior)
Vinyl Siding (to match house)
4x8x 7/16 OSB shell
2x6x8 base plates
2x6x8 top plates
Staggered 2x4x8 studs
Weave unfaced regular thermal insulation throughout the 2x4x8’s
Leave front open
About a 6” Air Space
(then inside wall) Opened back of 2x4x8 framing and studding (facing the air space)
Insulate between them (unsure with what kind)
Then 2 layers of 5/8” drywall (each layer going the different directions)
Caulk all cracks and corners well and paint.

Would this do the trick or am I way off base??? ;(

Thats impossible to say. First off, again, you have no idea of the sound levels you will be generating. And, there are different assemblies throughout the entire structure, not to mention the cieling/roof/floor assemblies and connections to the house, at the slab and the walls/roof cieling. Depending on the final connections, you could concievably build direct structural flanking paths to the garage exterior. This is why I suggest hiring a PROFESSIONAL to detail the assemblies and connections for absolute assurance that you meet your goal. The money you save by building the cheapest solutions may actually pay for his services while guaranteeing success. However, if this is out of the question, then you rely on determining WHO's solutions on the forums WILL. Although, there ARE experts here who may reply with GENERAL answers, they will NOT DETAIL NOR SPECIFY EVERY:
CONNECTION/ASSEMBLY/PRODUCT/FABRICATIONTECHNIQUE/HARDWARE/
TOLERANCE/TRANSMISSION LOSS PER ASSEMBLY-DIRECTION nor can they GUARANTEE YOU MEET CODE NOR PASS INSPECTION. And THAT my friend IS the bottom line as you will DEFINITELY have to apply for a permit for this project. Hence my suggestion for hiring an expert who WILL.

Ok, thats my .02 for the moment. I WILL post some details/sections as per my SUGGESTIONS, but it will take a little time to dig em up from my files and post them. So hang in there for a day or so.

But please remember, I have a disclaimer in full force here which basically reads....I AIN"T NO STINKIN EXPERT!!! But I, like many here have opinions. And thats what you ask for.
fitZ

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

PS. What is your HVAC PLAN?

 

[newatthis]

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the great response. I have not really gotten into the HVAC end of it yet (my wife has been asking me the same question) and I know thats very important. I was thinking of somehow trying to tie into the current system from my house (the main ductwork is located not far away, in the basement of my house,,,only about 15ft away) but I have to make sure the Central Air Unit will handle the added 700+ feet of space. Do you guys have any suggestions as to heat and A/C thats a quiet, AND affordable way to go? I also have a big wood pellet stove located in the Florida room that would heat the room no doubt, I doubt I would hear it running from inside the CR or TR.>??

I am open to any and all suggestions for this project as I am trying to cover all the bases before tearing into it.

Here is the latest upgraded design/layout based on recommendations from here, and also John Sayers site.

I was sort of planning on a mono pour foundation, but I will research now the decoupled approach. See how much more expensive, and work it involves for what it will gain.

I also will consider the block wall idea as well, with the furring strips then the siding. I guess my question with that is, will the sand filled walls deaden more sound then the siding leaf will then transmit? (I know thats not worded right, but you get the idea I hope..lol) And will there be a rattle concern of the siding on the block? I am thinking I'll still be going with the stick framing though, and just keep my fingers crossed.

I will NOT be usig the staggering stud approach.

I DO need advice on how to seal the ends of the double walls, without coupling the walls together (the inside "box" to the outside "box"). (I just dont want to walk in the enterance (see pic) and see 5" openings to the right and left between the walls. ;( I have been looking on John Sayers site for posts with solutions and recommendations, but havent found the exact answer yet (still looking...I know its there somewhere) That's an awsome site!!

The Windows and Doors will only be FRAMED in for future use. Not installed at this time.

Again, you guys on here and John Sayers site are a true blessing. I am VERY new to all this studio building stuff (obviously), but I sort of want to do it myself (with the help of 2 contractor friends) so its a HUGE learning experience for me. I hope you dont mind all the questions, because there will be alot of them I am sure.

Thanks again and remember,,,,it will be a 24 X 30 room. If you get bored and want to change my design to something you think would work better,,,feel free.

Thanks and peace
Aj

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I DO need advice on how to seal the ends of the double walls, without coupling the walls together (the inside "box" to the outside "box"). (I just dont want to walk in the enterance (see pic) and see 5" openings to the right and left between the walls. ;( I have been looking on John Sayers site for posts with solutions and recommendations, but havent found the exact answer yet (still looking...I know its there somewhere) That's an awsome site!!

Perhaps a simple fabric covering would be enough to hide the dead space and remain acoustically transparent.

Cheers!

 

[Notfonts]

I built a separate studio 28x30 about 75 feet from my house and about 100 feet from my closest neighbor. I had the exact same concerns and different options as you, not wanting to disrupt the neightbors. I ended up using resilient channel with 2 sheets of 5/8 inch drywall. So how did it work out? Well you hear very little sound about 50 feet from the studio. The only sound you do hear is the bass guitar and bass drum. I have had no complaints...yet. To be perfectly honest, I can't see how you can stop bass at a distance of 20 feet. I am curious what suggestions you do get though, maybe there is a magic solution.

 

[Innovations]

You've gone from being not serious enough about your air gap in your original diagram to way overkill (in terms of wasted floor space) on the second. Just remember to have a good isolated box-in-a-box construction on all sides. Having an air gap around all sides the size of a narrow hallway (and yet it would seem not wide enough to be a code-compliant hallway) is too much wasted square footage. You should float the floor and have a sound lock in the upper right corner. In your original picture you presumed that the wall away from the neighbor was less critical. Not true. Once out into the open sound will emminate in all directions.

It is correct that the ventillation will be your biggest potential problem. the basic rules are to line the ductwork with absorbant material. make it have a couple of turns on the way so the sound does not have a direct shot out, and to have bits of flexible isolation to that the ducts themselve do not carry strutural noise. Larger ducts mean slower air speed which means less wind noise but a bigger hole.

You might also want to look at making non-parallel walls to improve the tone of the room.

 

[Innovations]

My redesign. You might want to make the vestibule/iso a little larger and the control room a little shorter.

 

[newatthis]

Thanks for the input and I understand the un-paralleled walls concept and I will probably consider using that.

The wall space between the exterior wall and the interior walls is only going to be about 5". My drawings arent to scale. (I WOULD like more room though in the tracking "live" room if possible,,,another 2 or 3 feet deep would be nice)

A couple questions though,,,,(and thanks for your drawing by the way, good ideas on it) but,,,, arent the red arrows I put on the drawing what you would call "coupling points" connecting the exterior wall with the interior, thus making it a place for sound transmission??

What do you use to place between the studs and facings at these locations to isolate them?? Is there something out there that actually works,,,or is plain AIR and SPACE the best choice?

And the blue arrow, is that to represent a drum riser in the corner?? And if so, wouldnt it be better to have it in the other corner so its projecting away from the neighbors side of the building?? I know the drums sound will go in all directions, but I thought they would project more from the front>?>?

oh yea,,,and why would you place the mixing desk off to the one side wall instead of in front of the window as I had it?? Just curious>?>? Isnt it better to be able to see the people your recording while your tracking??

Thanks again and Peace
Aj

 

[chugheshc]

i'd seriously think about about having one large room -
it's messier looking, yes, but you could have a lot more
space if you considered that. It would also give you a lot of
options in sound treatment, as it could be built into the walls
and not take up a lot of internal space.
Those separate tracking/mixing rooms look cool, but with the
available space you have, you may very well be better served
lumping it all into one.
my two cents
C.

 

[newatthis]

Ok,,,I hope this isnt tooo long winded, but I have collected the advice and suggestions thus far and here is what I came up with. (and I apologize for it being all caps below, I typed it up that way in MS OFFICE WORD when i did it)

I am hoping for more input from some of the others on here who are well-versed in this area.

So far this whole studio idea has changed from the first drawing, and I am lovin it every time, because it seems to get soo much better. Thanks again for those who have responded.

Anyway, here is the run down. And please feel free to correct anything that I have listed that needs changed. I am a newB at this all and am learning as we go. There are also questions throughout that I still have.

PROPOSED STUDIO – PLANS, CONCERNS AND ISSUES

1- THE STUDIO WILL BE DESIGNED AS A HOME RECORDING STUDIO THAT WILL BE BUILT WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF A LATER CONVERSION INTO A FAMILY/GREAT ROOM AREA.
(SINCE IT’S NOW ATTACHED TO THE HOUSE, AND NO LONGER A SEPERATE BUILDING)

2- THE STUDIO IS PROPOSED TO BE 24FT WIDE X X30FT DEEP (POSSIBLY 31FT DEEP) IT WILL BE BUILT AND VIEWED AS AN EXTENSION OF THE GARAGE ITSELF IN ITS FRAMING AND LOCATION.

3- THE STUDIO WILL BE ATTACHED AS “AN ADDITION” ONTO THE HOUSE INSTEAD OF BEING A SEPARATE BUILDING. THIS IS DUE TO RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE BOROUGH OF CARLISLE AND THE VARIANCES NEED TO DO OTHERWISE. THE ONLY COMMON WALL WITH THE HOUSE WILL BE THE GARAGE (SIDE A).

4- ATTENTION AND CONSTRUCTION HAS TO BE BASED ON THE FACT THAT THE ONE NEIGHBORS HOUSE IS ONLY 20FT AWAY FROM PROPOSED STUDIO SITE. ISOLATION MUST BE THE PRIMARY FACTOR WITH BUILDING. THERE WILL BE NO FRAMINGS FOR ANY DOORS OR WINDOWS ON THAT SIDE (SIDE B) OF THE STUDIO. IT WILL BE KEPT SOLID.

5- THE STUDIO WILL HAVE A “BOX IN BOX” TYPE CONSTRUCTION (ROOM WITHIN A ROOM, TOTALLY UNCOUPLED)

6- THE STUDIO WILL BE STICK BUILT OUT OF 2X4X8 STUDS. IT WILL BE FRAMED STRAIGHT WITH ALL 2X4’S– THERE WILL NOT BE STAGGERED STUDS ON A 2X6.

7- THE STUDIO WILL HAVE EITHER SCISSORS TYPE, OR BARN STYLE TYPE TRUSSES FOR THE ROOF, THIS WILL ALLOW ME TO HAVE A HIGH PEAKED ROOF (INTERIOR CEILING) THAT SHOULD BE ABOUT 1 ½ TO 2 STORIES HIGH AT THE PEAK. THE CURRENT GARAGE ROOF IS 2 STORIES HIGH WITH A STEEP 9/12 PITCH.


8- THE WALLS ON SIDES C & D WILL HAVE FRAMED OUT PLACES FOR THE LATER INSTALL OF A SLIDING DOOR AND WINDOWS. THESE DOORS AND WINDOWS WILL NOT BE INSTALLED UPON THE BUILDING OF THE STUDIO, AND THAT OPTION WILL BE RESERVED FOR WHEN/IF THE BUILDING IS TRANSFORMED INTO FAMILY/GREAT ROOM DOWN THE ROAD.

9- FOR MASS TO HELP WITH ISOLATION OF SOUND, THE STUDIO WILL HAVE AT LEAST 2 LAYERS OF DRYWALL (POSSIBLE 3) ON ALL THE INTERIOR WALLS AND CEILING. THESE LAYERS WILL BE INSTALLED IN AN ALTERNATING FASHION SO THE JOINING SEAMS DO NOT LINE UP (FIRST LAYER WILL BE UP AND DOWN, THE SECOND WILL BE SIDEWAYS, AND THE THIRD WILL BE UP AND DOWN AGAIN ETC – OR IS IT BETTER TO HAVE THEM ALL INSTALLED UP AND DOWN THE SAME, AND JUST STAGGERED WHEN MOUNTING THEM SO NO SEAMS LINE UP??)

10- THE STUDIO WILL HAVE A TRACKING “LIVE” ROOM, ALSO A SEPARATE CONTROL ROOM, ALSO 1 ISOLATION BOOTH (ROOM), AND A SMALL FOYER “SOUND LOCK” HALLWAY AREA.

11- THE STUDIO WILL BE BUILT ON A 6” CONCRETE SLAB. NO FLOATING FLOORS, (BUT POSSIBLY ISOLATED SLABS AS NEEDED>?>?) THIS FLOOR WILL BE REINFORCED USING REBAR IN IT, ALONG WITH FIBERMESH TO REDUCE THE CHANCES OF CRACKING>?>?

12- THE INTERIOR FLOOR WITH NOT BE COVERED WITH WOOD OR CARPET, BUT INSTEAD BE ACID STAIND AND SEALED FOR A SMOOTH MARBLE LOOKING FINISH. FLOOR AREA RUGS WILL BE THEN USED THROUGHOUT AS NEEDED.

13- THERE WILL BE NO DRUM RISER BUILT WITHIN THE ROOM AT THIS TIME.

14- THE STUDIO WILL HAVE 32” AND/OR 36” SOLID CORE DOORS USED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE BUILDING. THESE DOORWAYS ARE TO BE SEALED DOORWAYS AROUND THE DOOR PERIMETER AND UNDER THE DOORS.

15- THERE WILL BE A “SOUND LOCK” (FOYER) AREA BUILT AT THE STUDIO ENTERANCE. THIS WILL PREVENT ANY COUPLING OF ANY INTERIOR WALLS WITH THE EXTERIOR WALLS, TO AQUIRE THE BEST ISOLATION POSSIBLE. THERE WILL BE A 3RD DOOR IN THE SOUND LOCK AREA TO ENTER INTO THE CONTROL ROOM.

16- A FABRIC TYPE MATERIAL WILL BE ATTACHED ONTO THE 5” END WALL SPACE OPENINGS IN THE SOUND LOCK / FOYER AREA (TO THE RIGHT AND LEFT OF THAT ROOM) THUS NOT COUPLING THE INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR WALLS ANYWHERE THROUGHOUT THE STRUCTURE, AND KEEPING ANY INSULATION FROM ENTERING THE AREA WHERE WE WORK, PLAY, LIVE AND BREATHE.

17- IN ORDER TO KEEP THE ROOM “TRANSFORMABLE” FOR LATER USE, THE INTERIOR TRACKING ROOM WALL (SIDE B) WILL BE SLIGHTLY ANGLED ON A CENTER OUTWARD PEAK, SO IT’S NOT PARALLEL WITH THE SIDE A,C OR D INTERIOR TRACKING WALLS. ALSO THE SIDE A AND C INTERIOR WALLS FACING EACH OTHER, WILL NOT BE PARALLEL EITHER WITH THE SIDE A ENTERANCE AND ISO BOOTH CONSTRUCTED AS SHOWN IN THE DRAWING.

18- THE SIDES C & D WALLS WILL BE THE ONLY FLAT STRAIGHT SURFACED WALLS. THIS IS ALSO FOR LATER EASE TO CONVERT BOX AREAS FOR THE FRAMED WINDOWS AND DOORS ON THOSE SIDES. (GOTTA KEEP THE WIFE HAPPY)

19- THERE WILL BE A THICK DOUBLE GLASS WINDOW BETWEEN THE TRACKING ROOM AND THE CONTROL ROOM. THE WINDOW PANE FACING THE TRACKING ROOM WILL BE ANGLED. (OR SHOULD BOTH BE ANGLED)??

THE DISECTED WALL DIAGRAM FOR THIS STUDIO’S WALLS AND CEILINGS WILL BE:

(EXTERIOR TO INTERIOR - and see diagram below):

STUCCO ON OUTSIDE FACE
OSB 7/16 EXTERIOR SHEETING
2X4X8 STUD WALL FRAMING
UNFACED INSULATION BETWEEN STUDS
EXTERIOR WALL INSIDE FACE WILL BE LEFT EXPOSED
A 5” AIR GAP ALL THE WAY AROUND (ROOF AND SIDES)
2 X 4X8X STUD WALL FRAMING FOR INTERIOR WALL
(POSSIBLY MORE INFACED INSULATION BETWEEN THESE STUDS AS WELL ??)
2 OR 3 LAYERS OF 5/8 SHEETROCK
ALL SEAMS SEALED WITH ACOUSTICAL CAULKING
INTERIOR WALLS THEN PAINTED

SHOULD I CONSIDER USING DOUBLE OSB ON THE OUTSIDE LAYER UNDER THE STUCCO, OR MAYBE A LATER OF SHEETROCK BETWEEN THE OSB AND THE STUD FRAMING FOR MORE MASS ON TH EXTERIOR LAYER AS WELL>?>?

(ALSO I AM STILL CONTIMPLATING THAT IF I WILL DO STUCCO THE EXTERIOR, THEN POSSIBLY GOING BACK TO THE BLOCK EXTERIOR FILLED WITH SAND IDEA.
I AM JUST AFRAID THAT WILL MAKE FOR A NIGHTMARE LATER WHEN I, OR SOMEONE ELSE WANTS TO TRANSFORM IT INTO A GREAT/FAMILY ROOM, CUTTING IN ALL THE DOORS AND WINDOWS ETC)

(ALSO – JUST AN FYI NOTE: THERE WILL BE BROADBAND ABSORPTION PANELS (4X8 703 FRAMED PANELS) THROUGHOUT THE STUDIO AND CORNER BASS TRAPS. (UNDERSTANDING THIS IS NOT FOR ISOLATION, BUT ABSORPTION PURPOSES, JUST WANTED TO NOTE THEY WILL BE USED.)

20- THE HVAC WILL BE A SEPARATE A/C SYSTEM FEEDING INTO THE CONTROL ROOM (PROBABLY PIPED AND VENTED FROM THE OUTSIDE, THROUGH THE GARAGE (SIDE A) WALL) AND THUS NOT HAVING TO BREECH ANY PART OF THE (SIDE B) WALL (THE NEIGHBORS SIDE). THE UNIT WILL SIT OBVIOUSLY OUTSIDE AND UP ALONG THE GARAGE AWAY FROM THE STUDIO BUILDING ITSELF. (I AM ALSO HOPING THAT UNIT RUNNING MAY MUFFLE ANY INTERIOT SOUND THAT STILL COMES OUT>?) I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THE PLAN FOR HEATING YET? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HVAC OR HEATING SYSTEMS,,,,YET>?>?

21- STILL RESEARCHING A WAY, OR FINDING A DECOUPLING SUBSTANCE TO PUT BETWEEN ALL THE WALLS AND THE FLOOR ITSELF TO HELP ISOLATE IT BETTER. (OPEN FOR IDEAS>?>?) OR WOULD ACOUSTICAL CAULKING WORK FINE ALONE??, OR ,,JUST LET THE 2 JOIN AS THEY NORMALLY WOULD?? IS THERE A FOAM OR TYPE OF TAPE ON TH EMARKET THAT CAN BE USED? ALSO JUST USE A REGULAR DOOR SEAL AROUND THE DOORS??

22- GREEN GLUE>?>? I UNDERSTAND IT’S THE WAY TO GO. I HAVE SEARCHED IT, AND JUST WONDERED HOW YOU HAD TO APPLY IT? DO YOU TOTALLY HAVE TO COVER THE SHEETROCK SURFACE, OR JUST PUT A BEAD ON ALL OVER? AND HOW ARE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF GREEN GLUE SUPERIOR OVER A REGULAR CAULKING??

HERE ARE 2 DIAGRAMS. ONE IS THE LOCATION OF THE STUDIO REFERENCE THE HOUSE AND NEIGHBORS. AND THE OTHER ONE IS A CLOSE UP OF THE STUDIO LAYOUT AND DESIGN SO FAR.
I AM STILL WAY OPEN FOR ANY AND ALL SUGGESTIONS, RECOMMENDATIONS AND CHANGES???

Thanks one again for all the input.

Peace
Aj

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

THE STUDIO WILL HAVE EITHER SCISSORS TYPE, OR BARN STYLE TYPE TRUSSES FOR THE ROOF, THIS WILL ALLOW ME TO HAVE A HIGH PEAKED ROOF (INTERIOR CEILING) THAT SHOULD BE ABOUT 1 ½ TO 2 STORIES HIGH AT THE PEAK.

How do you propose to reconcile a "room within a room" with this roof? In other words, how are you going to build a ceiling that is decoupled from a trussed roof? Just curious.
fitZ

 

[Innovations]

A couple questions though,,,,(and thanks for your drawing by the way, good ideas on it) but,,,, arent the red arrows I put on the drawing what you would call "coupling points" connecting the exterior wall with the interior, thus making it a place for sound transmission??

What do you use to place between the studs and facings at these locations to isolate them?? Is there something out there that actually works,,,or is plain AIR and SPACE the best choice?

correct, so you usually have a decoupling filler, like a neoprene gasket, for at least part of the gap. For someting put together with paintbrush I couldn't get that detailed. But it is a good sign that you are thinking about the little details.

And the blue arrow, is that to represent a drum riser in the corner?? And if so, wouldnt it be better to have it in the other corner so its projecting away from the neighbors side of the building?? I know the drums sound will go in all directions, but I thought they would project more from the front>?>?

Indeed drums radiate in all directions, the only one that is sort of directional is the kick. Now if you decide instead of a riser to have some sort of drum enclosure or gobos you would want it on the away side.

oh yea,,,and why would you place the mixing desk off to the one side wall instead of in front of the window as I had it?? Just curious>?>? Isnt it better to be able to see the people your recording while your tracking??

During mixing you want the room to be symmetrical around your monitors and it is considered best to have them centered on the LONG axis of the room. True this means that you will be looking over your shoulder at the musicians but honestly there won't be that many cases where you need to make eye contact. most of the time you will be looking at your display and control surface.

 

[Innovations]

7- THE STUDIO WILL HAVE EITHER SCISSORS TYPE, OR BARN STYLE TYPE TRUSSES FOR THE ROOF, THIS WILL ALLOW ME TO HAVE A HIGH PEAKED ROOF (INTERIOR CEILING) THAT SHOULD BE ABOUT 1 ½ TO 2 STORIES HIGH AT THE PEAK. THE CURRENT GARAGE ROOF IS 2 STORIES HIGH WITH A STEEP 9/12 PITCH.

To keep two leaf decoupled envelope across the ceiling I would suggest two layers of gypsum board on the lower web of the truss decoupled through the use of hat channels on rubber mountings. See kinetics noise control's site on obtaining these.

9- FOR MASS TO HELP WITH ISOLATION OF SOUND, THE STUDIO WILL HAVE AT LEAST 2 LAYERS OF DRYWALL (POSSIBLE 3) ON ALL THE INTERIOR WALLS AND CEILING. THESE LAYERS WILL BE INSTALLED IN AN ALTERNATING FASHION SO THE JOINING SEAMS DO NOT LINE UP (FIRST LAYER WILL BE UP AND DOWN, THE SECOND WILL BE SIDEWAYS, AND THE THIRD WILL BE UP AND DOWN AGAIN ETC – OR IS IT BETTER TO HAVE THEM ALL INSTALLED UP AND DOWN THE SAME, AND JUST STAGGERED WHEN MOUNTING THEM SO NO SEAMS LINE UP??)

probably the most important is to have them do a quick mudding of the seams on the first layers so that they are not weak points in the mass.

11- THE STUDIO WILL BE BUILT ON A 6” CONCRETE SLAB. NO FLOATING FLOORS, (BUT POSSIBLY ISOLATED SLABS AS NEEDED>?>?) THIS FLOOR WILL BE REINFORCED USING REBAR IN IT, ALONG WITH FIBERMESH TO REDUCE THE CHANCES OF CRACKING>?>?

If you are going through all this trouble why not float the floors too? if you are going to put rebar at regular intervals, or at least wire mesh, your cracking problems are not likely to be much of a concern to need the fibermesh.

12- THE INTERIOR FLOOR WITH NOT BE COVERED WITH WOOD OR CARPET, BUT INSTEAD BE ACID STAIND AND SEALED FOR A SMOOTH MARBLE LOOKING FINISH. FLOOR AREA RUGS WILL BE THEN USED THROUGHOUT AS NEEDED.

Rugs are a pain in a working studio, tending to get in the way as equipment is rolled or slid around.

19- THERE WILL BE A THICK DOUBLE GLASS WINDOW BETWEEN THE TRACKING ROOM AND THE CONTROL ROOM. THE WINDOW PANE FACING THE TRACKING ROOM WILL BE ANGLED. (OR SHOULD BOTH BE ANGLED)??

They need to be angled in relation to each other. The angle of the glass on the live room side should take into account whether they will contribute to direct reflections into the microphone. On the windows pay close attention to caulking and that each pane is in a separate isolated frame (so that the frame is not a flanking path.

THE DISECTED WALL DIAGRAM FOR THIS STUDIO’S WALLS AND CEILINGS WILL BE:

(EXTERIOR TO INTERIOR - and see diagram below):

STUCCO ON OUTSIDE FACE
OSB 7/16 EXTERIOR SHEETING
2X4X8 STUD WALL FRAMING
UNFACED INSULATION BETWEEN STUDS
EXTERIOR WALL INSIDE FACE WILL BE LEFT EXPOSED
A 5” AIR GAP ALL THE WAY AROUND (ROOF AND SIDES)
2 X 4X8X STUD WALL FRAMING FOR INTERIOR WALL
(POSSIBLY MORE INFACED INSULATION BETWEEN THESE STUDS AS WELL ??)
2 OR 3 LAYERS OF 5/8 SHEETROCK
ALL SEAMS SEALED WITH ACOUSTICAL CAULKING
INTERIOR WALLS THEN PAINTED

five inches is larger than normal on the air gap. If you really want to use an air gap that large you might want to consider an inside-out construction for the interior wall.

(ALSO – JUST AN FYI NOTE: THERE WILL BE BROADBAND ABSORPTION PANELS (4X8 703 FRAMED PANELS) THROUGHOUT THE STUDIO AND CORNER BASS TRAPS. (UNDERSTANDING THIS IS NOT FOR ISOLATION, BUT ABSORPTION PURPOSES, JUST WANTED TO NOTE THEY WILL BE USED.)

Or use the inside-out constuction of the interior wall.

20- THE HVAC WILL BE A SEPARATE A/C SYSTEM FEEDING INTO THE CONTROL ROOM (PROBABLY PIPED AND VENTED FROM THE OUTSIDE, THROUGH THE GARAGE (SIDE A) WALL) AND THUS NOT HAVING TO BREECH ANY PART OF THE (SIDE B) WALL (THE NEIGHBORS SIDE). THE UNIT WILL SIT OBVIOUSLY OUTSIDE AND UP ALONG THE GARAGE AWAY FROM THE STUDIO BUILDING ITSELF. (I AM ALSO HOPING THAT UNIT RUNNING MAY MUFFLE ANY INTERIOT SOUND THAT STILL COMES OUT>?) I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THE PLAN FOR HEATING YET? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HVAC OR HEATING SYSTEMS,,,,YET>?>?

If you know nothing then it might be time to ask a pro about those things. What is economical in your area depends on relative energy prices.

21- STILL RESEARCHING A WAY, OR FINDING A DECOUPLING SUBSTANCE TO PUT BETWEEN ALL THE WALLS AND THE FLOOR ITSELF TO HELP ISOLATE IT BETTER. (OPEN FOR IDEAS>?>?) OR WOULD ACOUSTICAL CAULKING WORK FINE ALONE??, OR ,,JUST LET THE 2 JOIN AS THEY NORMALLY WOULD?? IS THERE A FOAM OR TYPE OF TAPE ON TH EMARKET THAT CAN BE USED? ALSO JUST USE A REGULAR DOOR SEAL AROUND THE DOORS??

There is some stuff that kinetics sells, I have also seen people use that heavy rubber stuff like you use for playground flooring. But since you are not floating the floor the sound is going to be hitting the slab anyhow. As for the door seals the important thing is a tight seal You might find it better to ues a pair of seals than one massive one. Also pay attention to sealing up the door hardware or use surface hardware. Standard door hardware is essentially a two and a half inch hole.


Other extra thoughts: Pay attention to how power and signal outlets. Back to back junction boxes and straight-through conduits are a no-no. Although they are ugly surface mounted junction boxes reduce the size of holes. Also avoid lights that require that you cut a hole.

Consider skylights for natural light. You can construct them with an upper and lower pane of glass (check local code on the kind of glass required) just like they were the studio window.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

To keep two leaf decoupled envelope across the ceiling I would suggest two layers of gypsum board on the lower web of the truss decoupled through the use of hat channels on rubber mountings. See kinetics noise control's site on obtaining these.

Thats why I suggested RC OR Risc clips and hat channel earlier. Just thought I'd throw that in. However they AIN"T CHEAP, and niether is Unistrut, which is usually what they use in between the hat channel and the Risc clips, as hat channel can bend under extreme weight conditions.

 

[Innovations]

Thats why I suggested RC OR Risc clips and hat channel earlier. Just thought I'd throw that in. However they AIN"T CHEAP, and niether is Unistrut, which is usually what they use in between the hat channel and the Risc clips, as hat channel can bend under extreme weight conditions.

Agreed that they ain't cheap, but neither is building an entirely separate set of ceiling joists bearing on the inside walls which is the other choice.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Agreed that they ain't cheap, but neither is building an entirely separate set of ceiling joists bearing on the inside walls which is the other choice.

Agreed. I was just wondering what he had in mind. Suspending a cathedral ceiling with Risc/HC and floating it within the wall perimeter ought to be fun

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

five inches is larger than normal on the air gap. If you really want to use an air gap that large you might want to consider an inside-out construction for the interior wall.

Larger than normal? I was under the impression that the airgap was measured from the cavity face of the drywall of one leaf to the same of the other leaf. If a standard stud is 3 1/2", a 5" gap wouldn't even include the other wall cavity. With 1" between the two wall frames, that would be an airgap of 8". BTW, better check with your local building authority about FIRESTOPS within these airgaps.