Re-amping? Is it this simple?

R

RAMI

Guest
Never thought I'd be asking a question about re-amping, but here goes.

Last night, I was up late and wanted to do some guitar tracks. But I couldn't blast the hell out of my amp. But I really felt like recording, so what I did was get a cheap distortion plug-in that allowed me to get SOME sustain and actually play guitar parts with some feel. But, I didn't record the distortion, I just recorded the direct signal.

So, this morning I was trying to figure out how to get that direct signal to my amp so that I can mic it. What I did was take an output from my interface (US-1800), into the amp, and was able to audition different amp settings, etc.....I haven't tried recording yet, though. Is it just a matter of sticking a mic in front of my amp and sending that into REAPER? Will I not get a feedback loop of some kind? If it's this simple, why do people talk about "Re-ampers" and all that? Seems pretty simple to me.

If this works, it will be awesome. So often, I want to do guitar tracks but can't because it's too late. This will really allow me to record whenever I want.
 
RAMI said:
What I did was take an output from my interface (US-1800), into the amp, and was able to audition different amp settings, etc....
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If it sounds good coming out of the amp....you're good to go, and no, there won't be any feedback with the DAW.

The reason people use reamp boxes is because the output from a DAW/converter is usually Line level, and of course, the amp wants Guitar/Inst level. You can mess with the output level of the DAW to bring it down, but then there can also be impedance matching issues too.
Anyway...a reamp box makes it all match up and gives the best possible result in most cases.
 
Pretty much, that's all there is to it. But from a line out you're probably feeding it a hotter signal than you would straight from the pickup. A reamp box allows you to step the level down and provide the same impedance as you'd get from a pickup. In other words, yeah, it works, but if you plugged in the guitar with the same amp settings it would sound different.

I've heard dudes rant and rave about how much "better" their amps sound while reamping. It's because they're essentially running a tube screamer in front of it by going straight from the line out.
 
miroslav said:
If it sounds good coming out of the amp....you're good to go, and no, there won't be any feedback with the DAW.

The reason people use reamp boxes is because the output from a DAW/converter is usually Line level, and of course, the amp wants Guitar/Inst level. You can mess with the output level of the DAW to bring it down, but then there can also be impedance matching issues too.
Anyway...a reamp box makes it all match up and gives the best possible result in most cases.
Click to expand...

Greg_L said:
Pretty much, that's all there is to it. But from a line out you're probably feeding it a hotter signal than you would straight from the pickup. A reamp box allows you to step the level down and provide the same impedance as you'd get from a pickup. In other words, yeah, it works, but if you plugged in the guitar with the same amp settings it would sound different.

I've heard dudes rant and rave about how much "better" their amps sound while reamping. It's because they're essentially running a tube screamer in front of it by going straight from the line out.
Click to expand...

OK, cool. Thanx guys. Yeah, I'm soloing the guitar track and feeding it into the amp. I see what you're saying about the line level. My amp might be distorting more/sooner than it would with a lower level guitar signal, right?

Anyway, I'm not sure if I'll always do my guitar tracks this way. But it was nice to be able to track guitars at 1am without worrying about volume, and then cranking the amp at a later date. Another advantage is that I don't have to commit to a guitar sound. I can re-mix a tune at a later date and change the guitar sounds if I want. On the other hand, there is something to be said about actually making a decision and commiting to it, too.
 
Yes, if you're feeding the amp a hotter signal than what it would normally see, it will distort, crunch, and compress way sooner.

Some interfaces have a direct input that doesn't ramp up the signal at all. I don't know about your Tascam, check into it. But basically, turning that input all the way down, and plugging straight in, will bypass the preamp stage and get you the exact signal your guitar pickup kicks out. Then going line out will hit the amp with roughly what it would see anyway from a pickup, but with an impedance mismatch, which doesn't really matter. Just make sure you have no master fader or output control altering the signal. Give the amp exactly what it would see from a pickup. You can also run your line out through a buffered non-engaged pedal and sort of get the signal back to normal. There are lots of ways to cheat it. The best way is to just buy a reamp box. They always yield the most natural, transparent results. But it can be done all sorts of ways.
 
Yeah, the TASCAM has a few of those non-pre-amped inputs in the back. I'm assuming this isn't the same as switching the "Guitar/Line" switch to "Guitar" that I have on inputs 9 and 10?
 
If you don't use a reamp box...then the output level from the TASCAM going to the amp would matter.

I only said that because you mentioned Guitar/Inst inputs on the TASCAM. Maybe were talking about different things...?
 
RAMI said:
Yeah, the TASCAM has a few of those non-pre-amped inputs in the back. I'm assuming this isn't the same as switching the "Guitar/Line" switch to "Guitar" that I have on inputs 9 and 10?
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I'm not sure on that. My Firepod has two inputs that go pure instrument direct if they're turned all the way down. Find which inputs on your Tascam do that and use those to go in. That way you can record pure unaffected guitar pickup output. Then find out which outputs go out without increasing or decreasing the level. Use those to send your truly raw guitar signal to the amp....ideally through a buffered pedal to turn it back into a pseudo-guitar signal.
 
miroslav said:
I only said that because you mentioned Guitar/Inst inputs on the TASCAM. Maybe were talking about different things...?
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Maybe. I'm not sure what thell I'm talking about right now. But I think this clears it up for me:

Greg_L said:
I'm not sure on that. My Firepod has two inputs that go pure instrument direct if they're turned all the way down. Find which inputs on your Tascam do that and use those to go in. That way you can record pure unaffected guitar pickup output. Then find out which outputs go out without increasing or decreasing the level. Use those to send your truly raw guitar signal to the amp....ideally through a buffered pedal to turn it back into a pseudo-guitar signal.
Click to expand...
OK, I'll experiment. I have the choice of plugging my guitar into a switchable "Guitar/Line" input and putting that on "Guitar"....OR.....I also have the non-pre-amped inputs in the back of the unit.

I guess whichever one gives me a lower signal when I plug my guitar into it, would be the one that would get me closest to a guitar pick-up level?
 
The only downside to plugging right into a line input would be the possibility of noise when you try to reamp. That is a good way of trying to give the amp the same signal level the guitar would be giving it, but you run the risk of a high noise floor because you are recording a very low signal.

Whether or not it works for you depends on how noisy the interface is and how much gain you use on your amp. That is the other reason for reampers, you record a loud signal, the the reamp unit attenuates it to a guitar level signal, attenuating the self noise of the interface at the same time. This is very usefull with super high gain guitar sounds.

If you are one of those people who is constantly fiddling with the knobs on the amp, you can get away with recording the guitar with a good healthy signal and feeding the amp line level. This is because you will dial the right amount of gain into the amp as you are fiddling with it, trying to get the perfect sound for the part.

It is only essential to make sure you are feeding the exact amount of signal the guitar puts out if you only have the one guitar sound that you have setup on your amp and you are trying to match that.
 
RAMI said:
Maybe. I'm not sure what thell I'm talking about right now. But I think this clears it up for me:

OK, I'll experiment. I have the choice of plugging my guitar into a switchable "Guitar/Line" input and putting that on "Guitar"....OR.....I also have the non-pre-amped inputs in the back of the unit.

I guess whichever one gives me a lower signal when I plug my guitar into it, would be the one that would get me closest to a guitar pick-up level?
Click to expand...

You'd plug a guitar with passive pups into the guitar/line input and set it to guitar.
I think active pups are happy enough straight into a line input.

Greg's bang right about the output path. A line out with the signal level pulled back a bit will probably be fine going into your amp, but to keep it perfect (simulate what came out of the guitar 1st time around) you'd use a reamp box.
 
The inputs on the back are exactly the same as the inputs on the front when those switches are set to Line. The ones in the front have gain knobs, with all the way down being unity. The ones in the back are always at unity. If you push the switch in to Guitar, it adds like 9 or 10db of gain, and also changes the input impedance to 1M from 10K(? I'd have to look to be sure). All of the rear inputs are always at that lower impedance.

If you plug a passive guitar into one of these lower-Z inputs, it'll be very much like turning down the T knob on the guitar itself. If you've already got that T knob all the way down, you won't probably notice a difference, but for most things you will probably not like what it does to the tone. An buffered pedal - powered but bypassed - between the guitar and the interface will completely alleviate that issue. Then as long as you set all the faders in Reaper to 0 (unity), you have exactly the same signal coming out as going in, give or take a few db from the balanced>unbalanced connection.

A couple db here and there isn't really an issue, you'll probably adjust for that at the amp itself, and if that doesn't work, you can always go to the controls in the DAW. But if you're trying to record the original DI guitar signal at "proper" levels averaging around -18dbfs, you're probably adding 10-20db, which is quite a hell of a lot of gain, and will be noticeably different from plugging straight into the amp.

To a certain extent you have to ask yourself how much you care if it sounds exactly like the guitar into the amp. All that really matters is that the reamped signal sounds good in the mix anyway, right? Plug it in and turn the knobs till it sounds good.

Impedance is important on the input side because of the way that passive guitars are so sensitive to load impedance. The connection from the Tascam to the amp looks very much like the connection from a pedal to the amp - such that a pedal between them is redundant.
 
Farview said:
The only downside to plugging right into a line input would be the possibility of noise when you try to reamp. That is a good way of trying to give the amp the same signal level the guitar would be giving it, but you run the risk of a high noise floor because you are recording a very low signal.

Whether or not it works for you depends on how noisy the interface is and how much gain you use on your amp. That is the other reason for reampers, you record a loud signal, the the reamp unit attenuates it to a guitar level signal, attenuating the self noise of the interface at the same time. This is very usefull with super high gain guitar sounds.

If you are one of those people who is constantly fiddling with the knobs on the amp, you can get away with recording the guitar with a good healthy signal and feeding the amp line level. This is because you will dial the right amount of gain into the amp as you are fiddling with it, trying to get the perfect sound for the part.

It is only essential to make sure you are feeding the exact amount of signal the guitar puts out if you only have the one guitar sound that you have setup on your amp and you are trying to match that.
Click to expand...
OK, this is good to know. I'm not really adamant about trying to re-produce a certain sound that my amp gives me, so I'll probably just take a healthy signal out and play with it.
Steenamaroo said:
You'd plug a guitar with passive pups into the guitar/line input and set it to guitar.
I think active pups are happy enough straight into a line input.

Greg's bang right about the output path. A line out with the signal level pulled back a bit will probably be fine, but to keep it perfect (simulate what came out of the guitar 1st time around) you'd use a reamp box.
Click to expand...
Thanx man. I think I have it figured out with all this info. I didn't notice it being too noisy when I plugged the direct signal into the amp. certainly not as noisy as plugging my guitar into the amp.

If I find that I'm re-amping a lot, I'll be a reamper or whatever it's called. For now, I'll just play around with it and see what happens.

Thanx guys.
 
ashcat_lt said:
The connection from the Tascam to the amp looks very much like the connection from a pedal to the amp - such that a pedal between them is redundant.
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RAMI....this was the part I was refering to, and not really sure that ^^^ is valid.

IOW...if the TASCAM is sending a line level signal to the amp, it's not really "like a pedal" (which sends guitar level to an amp).

It can work, but you may have to turn down the output of the TASCAM quite a bit. How much that compromises the signal going to the amp, you can experiment and see for yourself. I reamp box makes that a no-brainer....otherwise, if reamp boxes were not important, everyone would just be going line level from their converters back to the amp.

Have fun! :)
 
ashcat_lt said:
To a certain extent you have to ask yourself how much you care if it sounds exactly like the guitar into the amp. All that really matters is that the reamped signal sounds good in the mix anyway, right? Plug it in and turn the knobs till it sounds good.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is really what matters most, once we get down to it. But it's good to know that those inputs in the back aren't the ones to use. I'll plug into channel 9, switch it to "Guitar", and go from there.
 
miroslav said:
RAMI....this was the part I was refering to, and not really sure that ^^^ is valid.

IOW...if the TASCAM is sending a line level signal to the amp, it's not really "like a pedal" (which sends guitar level to an amp).

It can work, but you may have to turn down the output of the TASCAM quite a bit. How much that compromises the signal going to the amp, you can experiment and see for yourself. I reamp box makes that a no-brainer....otherwise, if reamp boxes were not important, everyone would just be going line level from their converters back to the amp.

Have fun! :)
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My statement was all about impedance, I dealt with the level issues earlier in the post.

"Line level" is not a particularly useful term. Yes, if you're sending an average level around +4dbu, it will be a lot hotter than the direct guitar signal. You must have turned the guitar up at some point before it got to that output, and you'll have to turn it back down. If you don't turn it up to begin with...
 
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