Having an Objective View of Your Abilities

[michaelhigh]

I'm my own worst critic (believe me, it has to be this way, regardless), and it took me years to learn when and where to bail on a take. The NANOsecond I'm off pitch with a vocal I can feel it in my head, I don't even have to hear it with my ears on the exterior. When my drumming lacks articulation it's take (fill in the blank). And when my bass line doesn't synch (and I don't quantize) it's redo time. A ProTools producer/engineer once told me that you can chop your ass off, if the part you're chopping sucks you're fucked.

All this is to explain that you can be a good self-production team if you can kick your own ass on a regular basis, like 40 or 50 times in a three-hour session. Go ahead. There might be a sting after the kick, but the feeling of a near-perfect and acceptible take is the reward, especially if it can draw the right kind of attention.

 

[Laangorec]

This thread touches on 2 of the things that I try to live by. The first is that you have to think about the signal chain from the beginning, not the end. If you have a good performance of a good song in a good room on a good instrument, you put the right mic (not the most expensive mic) in the right place, plug it into the best preamp you have, don't clip anything and push record. If you don't have all of those things, plugins won't help you.

Secondly, if you are going to self-produce, you have to have a realistic image of yourself, and know what you can and can't do. If you think you are a superstar, you need a producer to tell you that you aren't. If you really are a superstar, you need Simon Cowell to tell you that you aren't.-Richie

i truly agree.... such a simple procedure has such a profound effect (or lack thereof) on the quality of a recording. quality referring to signal strength and clarity.
i also feel that genuine mastery begins with that understanding of using the correct tool for the task at hand...i.e. the right mic, not the most expensive and the right place. that's what i call artistry..


hey all,
another newbie here.....very inciteful thread. such priceless knowledge...

thanks for posting.

 

[MattMVS7]

With me, I have to perceive learning and experimenting as a spiritual bond with music rather than something tedious. I have a mental musical talent in that I can produce good unique songs in my mind, but the actual learning

 

[grimtraveller]

I have a mental musical talent in that I can produce good unique songs in my mind, but......

Interestingly, this was the main difference between Lennon and McCartney and led to later resentment on Lennon's part, accusing McCatney of subconsciously sabotaging his masterpieces. Lennon heard the songs perfectly in his head and was often really disappointed with the actual recordings of said songs because he kind of lived in his head. In 1967 he spoke of how "Tomorrow never knows" never came out how he wanted, that the 1000 monks he'd envisaged chanting didn't happen but he wished he'd stuck with what he'd heard in his head. He was also disappointed with "A day in the life" and "Being for the benefit of Mr Kite". In 1970 he said that he'd like to remix some of his songs like "Ticket to ride" and "Across the universe". In 1980, a couple of months before he died, he said he'd like to re~record/mix all his old Beatle songs. His perfect world was in his head and he wasn't a great one for reality.
McCartney on the other hand was adept at getting what was in his head out as music that was easilly accessible. His problem within the band from '65 on was that he would have all the parts and patterns written, giving the others little or no scope to add their own input which, ironically, pissed the two guitarists off so much {on Revolver, all his contributions except "Here, there and everywhere" involve outside musicians and minimal Harrison and Lennon input} that from '66 onwards, they were looking for ways to leave the band. Ironically because McCartney was the one who wanted to keep the band going.
The real skill of recording is in being able to get what is in the head into concrete form then recording it in a way that is easilly understandable. That used to be my main problem aside from being a lousy mixer {which I still am to some extent though thankfully, I've improved}; if I found myself in the middle of one of my mixes, I wouldn't know which song it was. At least now I do !!

 

[fighterchamp]

thanks for the tips

 

[WireBite]

This thread is great! The best piece of advice I can give is...... after you have written a song you like leave it for a day or two, if you go back and remember it straight away you know it's a good song

If you can't remember it..... well it can't of been that great after all. That's exactly what I do, same for recording, and you are usually left with the best songs. Never fails at least for me

++ WireBite ++

 

[DM60]

This thread is great! The best piece of advice I can give is...... after you have written a song you like leave it for a day or two, if you go back and remember it straight away you know it's a good song

If you can't remember it..... well it can't of been that great after all. That's exactly what I do, same for recording, and you are usually left with the best songs. Never fails at least for me

++ WireBite ++

For those who lack memory skills/just can't remember, I would say, maybe not leave it, do a quick down and dirty recording of the song, then walk away. Come back a few days/weeks and listen, see if it still holds a spark, then proceed.

I have a lot of good ideas that leave my head rather quickly. Plus, if you have them, two decent ideas could become one good idea.

 

[WireBite]

For those who lack memory skills/just can't remember, I would say, maybe not leave it, do a quick down and dirty recording of the song, then walk away. Come back a few days/weeks and listen, see if it still holds a spark, then proceed.

I have a lot of good ideas that leave my head rather quickly. Plus, if you have them, two decent ideas could become one good idea.

I can see the logic to a certain extent, but I was just commenting from my opinion and usually my 'popular' songs are the ones which I have worked on originally then remembered at a later date.

Not saying this works for everybody, but it works for me

++ WireBite ++

 

[grimtraveller]

Not saying this works for everybody, but it works for me

You're absolutely right; it doesn't work for everybody. I remember reading Paul McCartney commenting about the days when he didn't use tape recorders to jot down his ideas: he was of the opinion that he didn't need to jot anything down, his logic being that if he couldn't remember it, it couldn't have been any good in the first place. I thought that was a load of raffifia then and I still think it now. I get ideas all the time and there's no way I'd remember them if I didn't hum them into a dictaphone. Whether they're good or rubbish has got absolutely nothing to do with it.
Even on albums in my collection that I haven't heard for a while but have had for 20 years, there are times when a song starts and I can't remember it, the title, how it goes.....as it warms up I might. But either way quality and memory are two totally different things. This sort of reminds me of when you may be bursting to say something and then you forget what it was and someone says "well, it couldn't have been that important !" Aaaarrrrgggghhh !

 

[Bonjo]

First post here: A very informative and sobering thread. Well done everyone.

 

[flanners]

Interesting thread. Whenever i work with bands they always think their latest song is their best. I think this is part pf the creative process and you need that kind of current emotional connection with what you are writing to push you forward. Pat Pattison said that "90% of what you write will be s**t, but it makes great fertiliser." So if you assume not everything will be brilliant then you probably will find it easier to be less precious about each song.

In the old days I remember A&R guys making cassettes up of every song available for a new album. They would put the demos on one after another in 30 sec bits. Then they would play it in the car and to punters to see what songs stuck out.

Bands very rarely know what their 'best' songs are, because they have an attachment to them that isn't based on hearing them objectively.

Nice to be here.

 

[DM60]

Interesting thread. Whenever i work with bands they always think their latest song is their best. I think this is part pf the creative process and you need that kind of current emotional connection with what you are writing to push you forward. Pat Pattison said that "90% of what you write will be s**t, but it makes great fertiliser." So if you assume not everything will be brilliant then you probably will find it easier to be less precious about each song.

In the old days I remember A&R guys making cassettes up of every song available for a new album. They would put the demos on one after another in 30 sec bits. Then they would play it in the car and to punters to see what songs stuck out.

Bands very rarely know what their 'best' songs are, because they have an attachment to them that isn't based on hearing them objectively.

Nice to be here.

Well I am probably creating a lot of fertilizer. Something should good should come out of the ground soon I hope!

 

[tailored suit]

The reason why so many of the recordings you love sound so good, is that they were made as part of a collaborative process with many individuals all contributing their own perspectives. This is hard to do on your own.

Interestingly, Trevor Horn says that musical know-how boils down to knowing what works and what doesn't and he functions very much as an editor, sifting through all the contributions and suggestions of writers, musicians and engineers etc to decide which blend works best. To do this you must sit back and listen and not concern yourself with any details.

 

[TuridduTenor]

Words to live by

I guess what I'm driving at is that there needs to be a certain level of honesty in self-examination. The good news is that, on a certain level, you know when you're fooling yourself. In addition, if you honestly can't find anything wrong with your own work, you're not listening.

.

The curse of the perfectionist: hearing the problems but not having the wisdom of accepting those which give you uniqueness. I've always done too much to hammer out the 'imperfections' and haven't done enough to not wallow in fixing them, thereby destroying creativity.

First post. Good morning from Bologna today

 

[CoolCat]

The reason why so many of the recordings you love sound so good, is that they were made as part of a collaborative process with many individuals all contributing their own perspectives. This is hard to do on your own.

Interestingly, Trevor Horn says that musical know-how boils down to knowing what works and what doesn't and he functions very much as an editor, sifting through all the contributions and suggestions of writers, musicians and engineers etc to decide which blend works best. To do this you must sit back and listen and not concern yourself with any details.

I was thinking that too. Theres something about multiple inputs, it adds something , unless your doing a solo piano or something solo, but even then a arranger or producer might suggest a couple great inputs.

Beatles proved this when they went single and never really got the same vybe, and people were said to be too much of yes men to paul and not critic him as Lennon might have, or Harrison... to the improvement of the song.

My son believes if you arent signed by 24 it probably aint happening for the big contracts, I always thoguht 32, but he's more in tune today.

Thats being objective to the biz data and what new acts are seen. ( I dont have a logsheet of contracts signed in the past year or so, but you dont see many new acts for the big labels being old people.)

does anyone know of any new act hitting the Top 100 who are old newbies? probably not.
some old man humping lady agag or peeing on her probably isnt what shocks enough or something.

 

[jahey]

Great thread ...I'm a noob and soak this forum up like a sponge....picking up from some one's experience on something that was giving me trouble or not adjusted correctly......saving me tons of time and energy and $$.....and some hair ( not much there).........I look at my abilities as mouth shut eyes and ears wide open.....I don't know know anything except that I will always be learning.....I truly appreciate this place!!! Thanks for all the great input and perspective!!!

 

[SayWhat?]

I always think 'ok who have I stolen this from?' when I come up with a riff that others really like, cause I think it cant have come from my brain haha.
Im very much a riff type person and do not know where to go with the song after that, in my playing I hardly have a song that lasts more that 1 min 30 seconds.
This is why I want to get into actually recording the songs, may not come true, but it makes me think that if I have it down and listen back to it, ill know where im going with the piece thereafter and be able to have a 'fuller' track....not that short songs are a bad thing.

 

[Dario Rigon]

Great forum.. multiple inputs are the best way to go.. sometimes i m happy with what i am doing, then i make it listen to some friends and they are like: what is this.. blah!? So they point at me things i didn't noticed before. And that helps a lot. When you re concentrating on what you are doing, you miss what you are NOT doing

 

[slickjesus]

As Enzo Ferrari allegedly said, 'Not all Ferrari owners are Ferrari drivers'.

 

[BroKen_H]

I've always maintained that anyone can sing, it's just a matter of how well. Same applies to anything.
One of my biggest downfalls is practice. I know how to play many instruments, but finding the time to keep honed on all of them would be problematic. I haven't had a keyboard in my home for four years now (it's at the church), so my abilities have slid down the proverbial hill a bit. My bass collects dust, for the most part, and my intonation and consistency are terrible. I play and practice drums two to three times a week, so my skill there is actually improving. My guitar (which is my least skilled instrument) gets most of my attention. Still messing with scales and getting an application in my head how to do pents, ionians and phrygians. Major and aeolean are easy to me, but those three my fingers refuse to work with.
Love this thread. Very enlightening. It's true what was said about church singing though...most people in church are not listening to the performance as much as the heart and the spirit of the song sung (croaked/hacked/trainwrecked). And although the Bible does say we should "make a joyful noise" it also says we should "study to show ourselves approved" !!!