Collaboration NiGhTmArE !!!

studioviols

studioviols

New member
Scenario :
An MP3 Clinic board member contacts you through email or PM and tells you that there is an MP3 , (at 160kbps), available for you to download ... and that they would like for you to develop a part, and record that part ... to their song.

They tell you that they had 'you in mind' ,when they actually were writing the song.

You ask them about a time frame ... they say ... oh ... no timeframe.

So you work the collab into your schedule, and you get an email 4 days later asking how the tracks are going. You respond that you are going to start on them at the top of the week in a few days.

So you've downloaded, and then you spend some long hours laying some tracks, mixing, mastering and then finally uploading your side of the collaboration. And you slave over these tracks, you do the damn best you can do, for the board, and for the collaboration, but most importantly ... for the song itself.

You check the ideas with others through your additional resources, and they are stunned, the tracks are fantastic and totally appropriate they say. They can't wait to hear how the collaboration progresses, and several say they would love a crack at a lead line or whatever, they want a piece of that action they say.

You upload your first set of ideas, the foundation for your part, and solicit another chat session to discuss the collab and where it should go. This is a very formal collab it seems, exactly the opposite of what The Ghost of FM and I are recently involved in.

So you have a chat with your collaborator and they tell you 'it sounds like samples !' , you become concerned ... :)

The next response you get is notification that your partner has posted a mix to their nowhereradio.com site that has the same name as the song you and your collaborator the songwriter have been working on together.

Oh joy you think in naive confusion, I'm posted for this collab, so you download to see what your fellow collaborator finally did with your mix.

On their nowhereradio.com website you find a mix posted with the disclaimer that the tune is finished and there is a byline with your name thanking you and giving you credit for 'tips' . You become concerened :D

You listen. Your collaboration partner has indeed posted a mix ... of them playing the instrument you were solicited to collaborate. The are playing YOUR arrangement with some additions that are highly inappropriate ... and their playing sucks like holy shit especially when compared to the general quality of the song and the performance and the recording ... and you have been given credit for the 'tips'.

Too late, someone who 'wanted a piece of the action' has downloaded it also, one of your peers who helped you check out the mix ... they say you've been suckered, you have lost credibility with a professional peer, they will of course tell everyone else and they have the mix also to prove it.

They make a joke of it.

Again, your collaborator has basically taken your arrangement and altered it to fit their perceptions, made some additions ... and proudly posted it as finished ... blaming you for their shitty mess with the 'thanks for the tips' and 'it's finished' disclaimer.

What do you do ? How does this affect the spirit of collaboration on the board ? How does this affect the health of the board.
How important is collaboration for this board? Officially, there isn't even a collaboration section here ...

Is collaboration greatly subordinate to reviewing mixes on this Clinic ?

Or is collaboration the majik that holds this whole ship together, born from the juice the Clinic's fruits have produced ?

Your thoughts please fellow board member so we can nip this in the bud, if there be nipping to do ?
 
Collabs.............

I think you take your chances when it comes to collabs.
Sometimes it will work to both partie's satisfaction and other times it is one person taking a dominant role and thats just the way it is.
 
Wow,

How much does that suck! I hate to say it , my friend , but never, NEVER collab with someone you have not established a bond with and feel totally comfortable with, previous to the 'track-busting'. Shit, that really sucks, time is more precious than gold.

You def were coaxed in, used and discarded,"Hook, line & sinker"!

If you knew him before you busted ass on it , and he pulled the wool over your eyes........I'd pull something on him....and it wouldn't be wool!

You can, btw, copyright your arrangement via audio cassette or CD even though it's not your composition. You can contact the Library of Congress or do a 'poor mans copyright' by mailing your tracks to yourself certified and never opening it. Even if the song sucks, I'd do it just for the satisfaction of claiming ownership to the arrangement and for personal closure.[ but I'd do it now as he's probably reading this thread also]

peace
 
did this happen to you, or are you afraid it will happen to you? i'm not following. either way it's pretty poor behavior.
 
Collaborations have been getting more common over the last year or so but they aren't the primary thing here. When I first showed up.....there weren't hardly any of them......very few. Then a bunch of us started doing it and it got to be something of interest to more and more people. But I'd say that it's a minor part of the board. Most folks still tend to do their own work......after all.....look at the last collab challenge. 5 (I think) got done out of about 27 who said they were gonna do one.

I wouldn't stress about it too much.
Also......different people have different ideas about whats appropriate behaviour. The person in question could be totally oblivious to the fact that he shouldn't have done it that way.
So just learn from it and next time you'll have some specific requirements from your partner. ;)
 
HevyD47Ca sayzzz :
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I think you take your chances when it comes to collabs.
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I heard that song too ! :D


flat-9 sayzzz :
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... never, NEVER collab with someone you have not established a bond with and feel totally comfortable with, previous to the 'track-busting'... time is more precious than gold ... copyright your arrangement via audio cassette or CD even though it's not your composition ... for personal closure
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Lesson Learned. Time is the most important thing, the tip off should have been when they said 'no timeframe'. The information on arrangment copyright is what I wanted another board member to confirm, thank yew ! Yes, part of what I'm doing here is for personal closure. You have good insight, been there done that my fellow board membuh ! :D ... Peace and thanks for looking out for the board.


erichenryus sayzzz :
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... did this happen to you ...
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Yes, I'm getting big huge tatoo on my forehead tomorrow ... 'SUCKER' :D . I am trying to learn how to avoid this in the future, and this thread will help me to see who might be best trusted ... my main man ;-)


Kramer :
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I think it's time to name names!
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Remind me not to fuck you over in a collab ! :D , but really, I'm doing this to distance myself from it, find closure, and move ahead, it really was a big dissapointment to me and others, and I lost some rep by trusting the little charming bitch girl.
 
Lt. Bob tooted :
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The person in question could be totally oblivious to the fact that he shouldn't have done it that way ... So just learn from it and next time you'll have some specific requirements from your partner
----------------------

I think this is the likely scenario for this.

I set down specific requirements and tried to outline 'Steps of Production' as best as possible. I fully documented every single PM, email, and chat session, and I've reviewed all of that several times ... I cheated myself, I had a responsibility to make sure the collab partner was meeting the requirements for the 'Steps of Production'.
 
Hey, that sounds a nightmare and I can totally sympathise. I've 'collaborated' in the past (long time ago) and it's always led to disagreements. Probably my fault as I'm a bit stubborn, but I think as musicians we're a strange bunch!

Chill out, have a glass of wine and go write a tune!!!

Is it someone on this board then?
 
When its a collab' the key is that its never "over" until both parties consider it a good final take.
There's only "this is where it's at for now..."

I`m still in collab on a few tunes that have been posted as a "this is where it is now".
Although I`m still working on them, go figger.....

Collaboration is harmonious development through co-mingling of the rationale, skills, and imagination of the members collectively, else it's NOT a collaboration..
 
Khompewtur : Brave, brave sir Robin ... :D


Geezer : Yes we are mostly crazy folk, maybe it was a blessing for Einstein that he really wasn't a good violinist. I had to quit drinking, it was combining with the crazyness of whatever drives my musicality and was quickly leading to 'deathness' :D


Toki987 : I like the Avatar
 
Thanks, I figured if I have Adobe I might as well start learning to use it. I put too much paint on it. This is just goofin practice anyways. :)
 
Khompewtur said:
You know you could always post your version of the mix and let us figure it out.
Click to expand...
I have run that over in my head many, many, many times. But I don't want the stink. I'm not out to slam anybody, this thread is for ME, and my crunched toes, it's not to slam anyone.

It's also to bring attention to proper collaboration ettiquette. No ... the tracks are fucking WASTE ... and it hurts, but that's life.

And I'm confident that my tracks, my first presentation of the foundation tracks, and you know what I do, violin and viola and cello pad ... string arrangments, that first presentation was SO GOOD, that if fooled the songwriter into thinking they were samples ... so I'm confident.

I would like to SHARE that work with the board, and sure ... I LOVE ATTENTION , I'm a performer, that's one of the reasons I do it.

But it would be unethical.

I also issued a DIRECT challenge to the other person to post their mix against mine, and they should put a poll on the posting, and see which one is better.

They totally skirted the issue of the challenge.

So now, I'm thinking if they come back to the collaboration it's only because of shame or some shit ... it's all fucked up.

I'll know better next time, and the time after that, and the time after that. I'm learning, I'll get better at this.
 
Gee, SV, collaboration is a lot like sex. It can be a mutually beneficial shared pleasurable experience, or you can be used as a tool by someone who bites. Like sex, it's just not the same when you do it alone, but it involves risk. And you do it again, even though it hurt before.
You seem to like my songs, so feel free to lay down any and all tracks on my stuff that makes you happy. I will never post up or publish what you do unless you're happy with the tracks and the mix. If I edit you, I will ask your opinion and keep you in the loop throughout the process. If the track goes to a commercial project, with your approval, I'll send you an artist's contract and pay your residuals. Consider that a proposition. Before you meet the beautiful princess, you've got to kiss quite a bit of frog.-Richie
 
Hey man,
I feel your pain.....
Not all collaborations work out.....

I am the "King" of collabs......for every finished tune there is another that didn't make it......shit happens...people usually have the very best of intentions at the onset, but you can pretty much tell when it's going in the right direction or not from the beginning......

I would have to say that I am guilty of letting people down too.....by not delivering what was promised....at least once that I can think of and that bothers me more than someone else not fulfilling their promise to me.............

No sense in getting yourself bothered by it though....there are good and bad experiences in life and that holds true with internet collabs...shrug those shoulders....shake that head....and move on to the next project.......the most important thing to me is to have fun doing it.....if you can't have fun......then why do it at all.

Take it easy man,
Joe
 
Richie :
If you rub the right kind of frogs on the bite marks ... does it make it feel better ? :D I bet Dobro could get me some of those really wierd frogs :cool:

And yes, I fully expect to be kissing a lot of frogs in the next few years ... but when the frogs are very beautiful, it gets confusing. But then again, beautiful frogs are a dime a dozen, so that makes me feel a bit better.

I appreciate your proposition, and I will certainly consider that. I look forward to your posting the finished mixes, and seeing what your engineer will churn out ! And I will keep an eye on your stuff.

My Candidate Collab list is fairly full so I won't promise any submissions in the near future, but I'm laying more track every day now, so it's just a matter of time ...

Thanks for weighing in on what I feel is a serious matter for this board.
 
Joro :
Thanks for weighing and contributing to this thread. It's nice to hear that you feel worse for not being able to 'make it happen' than you do when others might have dropped the ball.

I'm not perfect, I'm a frog too ... we're all frogs in this pond !

But the important thing is when there are flies to eat ... we enjoy them ... uhhhh ... ok.

Thanks for the kind words Joro.
 
SV: here's my collab record since I showed up here. Out of seven times when someone's said they were interested in doing a collab with me, I've hit it sweet twice - once with drstawl and once with Lt Bob. That's a pretty low success rate, I think. And interestingly, almost without exception, the people involved have integrity.

So what's to be learned from this? Well, here's what I've got out of it - keep picking people with integrity, but stop trying to get those people for the sake of serving my song. I think I have to play to their strong suit instead.
 
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