Tascam 38 Capstan Motor Issues?

H

Historian

New member
Hi Gang

I'm *a 66 year old musician/engineer. Have had some experience dabbling around with mechanics.*

Used this machine back in 2002-2003.

Recently noticed the obvious:*
Deteriorated belt and pinch roller which turned to 'Goo'. Replaced both of them.

Now I find that, (using several tapes same results); the capstan mechanism 'tries' to move the tape forward in 'Play Mode', and 'tries' to rewind and fast forward. It struggles then stops in all functions.

Without tape, and activating 'both' tension rollers manually, the mechanism seems to work fine in all functions.

My guess is that the motor, or motors may need cleaning & lubricating?

Anyone try to do this before? Or have 'other' ideas?

Thanx
Mike*
 
What's the tape path like? Has it had sticky reels through it?
Grinding to a halt and squealing are the the top symptoms of sticky shed.
 
Let's just ask this question once; I deleted your other thread. This is probably the better section to post in for this type of discussion.

Welcome to the site.
:)
 
Tascam 38 Capstan Motor

Hello there - thanx for the reply

I've read here where you've asked others that same question.

When you say Tape Path, I'm assuming this refers to all the obvious machanical parts: rollers, guides, heads etc?

Yes, that was the first thing I did: cleaned all those parts with Head Cleaner - everything is clean, 'no residue'; New Belt, New Pinch Roller. Originally, there was never any visible evidence of this. Tapes and machine were kept in 'humid controlled' environment. Also tried several different tapes. Wish this were the case, it would be an easier fix.

As I mentioned, the motors appear to be 'weak', no strength, they simply just stop, or never start rolling.

There's another thread which might address this issue, but the forum won't allow me to post it here. The name of the thread is called: Tutorial: Cleaning the motors on a Tascam 38/48/58 - Posted by ckswartwood.
 
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Tascam 38 Capstan Motor

There's another thread which might address this issue, but the forum won't allow me to post it here. The name of the thread is called: Tutorial: Cleaning the motors on a Tascam 38/48/58 - Posted by ckswartwood.
 
Historian,

Before you dive into cleaning the motors, it would be very important to learn more about older tapes and how even if properly stored can become affected by Sticky Shed Syndrome.

We have a sticky thread on this important topic and you might want to give it read to learn more about this problematic issue that tapes like Ampex, Scotch and several other brands are affected by.

You can also do a simple hand test on the spooling motors by placing you hand on the NAB hub as its in a fast wind mode, with no tape on the machine, and seeing how much resistance it takes to stop the motor with your hand. I've seen experienced repair guys do this as a fast test to see how healthy the motors really are or aren't as they know from experience how much gripping power it takes to stop them by hand. Wear gloves if you're concerned about harming your skin!

Cheers! :)
 
...

Check the solenoids for proper brake release and pinch roller up/down action. If the belt and pinch roller deteriorated, maybe so did the washers in the solenoids, which would gum up the action.

The tapes should be verified to absolute certainty. Sticky tape is the cause of about 90% of similar issues. The tape doesn't have to be so far gone as to shed, it may have developed a high surface friction just short of shedding.

:spank::eek:;)
 
A Reel Person said:
Check the solenoids for proper brake release and pinch roller up/down action. If the belt and pinch roller deteriorated, maybe so did the washers in the solenoids, which would gum up the action.

The tapes should be verified to absolute certainty. Sticky tape is the cause of about 90% of similar issues. The tape doesn't have to be so far gone as to shed, it may have developed a high surface friction just short of shedding.

:spank::eek:;)
Click to expand...

+1 in reverse order. ;)
 
Thanx for the replies ... :)

The tapes should be verified to absolute certainty. ??
high surface friction just short of shedding. ??

And some simple signs of these conditions would be?

I do notice that when threaded and spooled properly, the tape might be a little 'tight' accross the heads and the guides?

But there's no visible sign of corrosion, (from the little I can see as it spools off the reels before it disengages and stops). Again, all the machine parts where the tape runs thru, are clean.

I will however conduct more tests, (without tape), to see what the resistance and braking capacity is.

Thanx to all .... be back in a few days ....

Mike
 
Historian said:
I will however conduct more tests, (without tape), to see what the resistance and braking capacity is.
Mike
Click to expand...

Good signs would be residue on the tape, in the packaging, or around the heads/tape path.
There should be any 'dust' coming off in storage or during playback

You sound pretty sure about the tape and path all the same, although there's no harm in hammering it home, you understand.

Checking the brake resistance without tape sounds like a plan.

It's usually something smaller/simpler than failing motors, which is why these guys aren't jumping straight in with exploded diagrams. ;)
 
Just to be very clear on this subject:
at first make sure you're not using an Ampex 456 made in California. If it's made in Alabama and has it's logo on the bottom it's likely to be fine but before getting into cleaning the motor try with a BASF/EMTEC/RMGI SM911 or a Quantegy labelled 456.
I'm not saying this to sound like an arrogant prick but only because I fried a motor on a Tascam 38 after long hours of repair time. All that for nothing. Had I only listen to advice about sticky shed on this site... :facepalm:
 
Hi Guys

Happy 4th!

As suggested, I conducted tests in 'Fast Forward' and 'Rewind', (no tape), activating the tension wheels, and attempted to get 'a feel' for the strength of the motors. Fast Forward, (right motor) is pretty strong as I held my hand over the wheel. Rewind is not as strong, but I still can't figure why it wouldn't have the strength pull the tape?

Someone referred to the washers in the solenoids? Well, if these are the black washers, (the ones surrounding each arm in the #2 solenoids), how would that affect the operation? As I've repeatedly mentioned, (other than the replaced Gooey pinch roller and belt), there are no other signs of such deterioration.

It would seem those solenoids are doing their job.

Now comes the question of those Five different Ampex 456 tapes: Is it possible that ALL 5 older tapes would be affected by sticky shed, and cause the tension roller wheel to disengage? BTW, all 5 tapes are stamped: Redwood Ca.

I'd like to avoid buying a brand new tape just to see if the machine works in order to sell it? But hey, maybe I should?

Hello WarmJetGuitar : Maybe I should pick up a used tape like the ones below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BASF-10...Audio-Tape-1100m-NAB-Metal-Reel-/141335875195

https://reverb.com/item/175358-quantegy-456-half-inch-reel-10-5-nab-2500-meters

http://www.tapeonline.com/products/quantegy-reel-to-reel-audio-tape-467-half-inch-9700-tapecare

Thanx
Mike
 
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It's worth a try buying a fresh tape from RMGI. SM911 is similar to 456 and no calibration is needed. The SM900 you're looking at would work too but they're a little thicker than 456/911 and will increase the amount of wear on your machine. I'll say it's worth the extra money to buy a brand new tape. If it aint SSS causing the issue and you ever drop by Denmark I'll definitely give you a beer :-)
Worst case you'll have a fresh tape for another Tascam 8-track or a Fostex 16-track.

Used SM911 from BASF or Emtec is fine too - IF it's actually whats on the reel.
And yeah, it's very likely that all of the 456 tapes is SSS. All tapes before 1995 is affected by it as it was because they used a binder that reacted poorly and gathered moistered over time.

Historian said:
Hi Guys

Happy 4th!

As suggested, I conducted tests in 'Fast Forward' and 'Rewind', (no tape), activating the tension wheels, and attempted to get 'a feel' for the strength of the motors. Fast Forward, (right motor) is pretty strong as I held my hand over the wheel. Rewind is not as strong, but I still can't figure why it wouldn't have the strength pull the tape?

Someone referred to the washers in the solenoids? Well, if these are the black washers, (one surrounding each arm in the solenoids), how would that affect the operation? As I've repeatedly mentioned, (other than the replaced Gooey pinch roller and belt), there are no other signs of such deterioration.

It would seem those solenoids are doing their job.

Now comes the question of those SIX different Ampex 456 tapes: Is it possible that ALL 6 older tapes would be affected by sticky shed, and cause the tension roller wheel to disengage? I'm a little suspicious trying to avoid buying a brand new tape just to see if the machine works in order to sell it?
But hey, maybe I should?

Hello WarmJetGuitar : Maybe I should pick up a used 456 like the one below:

New BASF 10 5 SM900 Studio Master 1 2" 1ml 3600' Audio Tape 1100M NAB Metal Reel | eBay

https://reverb.com/item/175358-quantegy-456-half-inch-reel-10-5-nab-2500-meters

Quantegy Reel-to-Reel Audio Tape 467 half-inch 9700 TapeCare | TapeOnline.com

Thanx
Mike
Click to expand...
 
Thank you WarmJet

BTW, all 5 Ampex 456 Tapes are stamped: Redwood Ca.

I'd save a little money buying the one on Ebay. Its supposedly new, and it doesn't matter about the thickness, I'm selling the machine anyway.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BASF-10...Audio-Tape-1100m-NAB-Metal-Reel-/141335875195

I really appreciate your advice - although I may be an older 66 year old musician, and pretty handy with tools, all you guys are really knowledgeable about analog.

Its a shame to see the Tascam analog forums disappear. Thanks to you guys we still have some references.

BTW: I'm an old friend of Eddie Ciletti and Jimmy Yamaguchi, (from Tascam).

Thanks
Mike
 
Hi Gang

New BASF Tape yields improved results; but my earlier suspicions regarding the lack of strength in the motors may have been confirmed:

New tape can now play relatively free, however only after juggling/manipulation tension on wheel hub locks on both sides. Initially there was squealing which was eliminated by loosening up the tension lock hubs. After that was established, I then tried Fast Forward & Rewind. The switches seem to kick in, (you can hear the click), but there's no movement. I indicated earlier Fast Forward, (the right motor), is stronger. With a gentle pushing and coaxing, the speed picks up. However in Rewind, its hopeless.

Remember; the tape path, (all associated parts), are as clean as a baby's behind.

My conclusion; (unless there's other suggestions), those motors will need work.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...ial-cleaning-motors-tascam-38-48-58-a-336460/

Thanx
Mike
 
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Brakes!...

I'd still be inclined to pull off the front cover & mount a tape to visually verify the brakes are releasing as fully as they should, before proceeding.

Beyond that, the tensions are adjustable and could be way off. The FF & RW current is adjustable, which is set properly by doing a tension adjustment with a spring scale, as detailed in the manual. The reel motors have a heck of a lot of torque, depending on how much current you give them.

About 10 years ago I had unduly high & excessive tension on the tape and heads of my 38 because the tensions were off. FF/RW was also sluggish. After going thru the tension adjustments it was a world of difference & handled tape much better. Swift & efficient FF/RW and it put less tension on the heads.

I think when this internal tension adjustment drifts, it drifts up and increases tension, rewind and take-up tension simultaneously,... which will inevitably cause problems.

YMMV.
:spank::eek:;)
 
Hey Reel - How ya doin?

Ok then my good friend, I'll dig into tension adjustments. Anything to put off tearing apart the motors. But have to do some reading on it. I have #2 manuals in PDF form, neither of them are exactly printed/copied clearly. I swear Tascam modeled their service procedures from the German technical manuals of WWII :)

I've had the front cover off & on several times; yes I would agree braking is not the best when I tried those manual tests, (without tape).

Ok, be back in a few days ...

Thanx for all your help! :cool:

Mike
 
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