Tascam 22-2 or Revox A77?

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xxmangoosexx

New member
Hello, as my intro into R2R recorders, I'd like to get a 1/4'' half-track mixdown deck. I'll be mixing down from either my Tascam 246, 144, digital, or live right off of my console.

I've narrowed it down to either the Tascam 22-2 or the Revox A77 (probably a mkI since it's cheaper, and not sure if I'll be able to find a high speed one).

I like these two because they are relatively small, pretty popular (easy to find, easy to find parts etc) come in 1/2 track, high speed flavors. Also, they are cheap! I have very little money.

Any recommendations?
 
Tascam 22-2 wins for mutiple reasons:

1) - 15 ips/2T A77s are hard to come by
2) - any A77 in working order are going to be more expensive (it's a real popular deck with audiophile/home hobbyist types)
3) - 22-2s sound better (in my opinion)
4) - support for tascam stuff is more readily available, as are parts (and cheaper - revox uses all kinds of weird little sensitive swiss made parts)

that said, you could probably find some kind of old ampex or something in the price range of a revox, which would be my recommendation overall. but they are BIG !
 
btw just found another thread that asks same question - sorry for posting this. but i'd be curious to hear about good Ampex mixdown decks...
 
I think my Tascam 22 is the perfect balance of fidelity and tape vibe. Not crunchy or noisy, but not too subtle either. A +6 tape like LPR35 at 15 ips with conservative levels will be pretty hiss-free and clean. Slow it to 7.5 or use a +3 tape like Scotch 207 and you can make it gritty.
 
im leaning 22-2........are they relatively easy to maintain? I have a lot of experience with cassette recording (cleaning heads, rubber, tape path and demag) but no real r2r experience.
 
xxmangoosexx said:
im leaning 22-2........are they relatively easy to maintain? I have a lot of experience with cassette recording (cleaning heads, rubber, tape path and demag) but no real r2r experience.
Click to expand...

You can't really get at the adjustments like you can on a "pro" deck (I think the 22 sounds pro, and I have a pro deck to compare it to). If you are recording and playing back on the same Tascam 22, fine. I would not plan on playing back tapes recorded on other decks regularly, as calibrating/aligning is much more of a headache.

Belts are easily found, and pretty easy to change. Brakes are easy to adjust. I recently had one of mine in the shop for some IC's that were bad on the preamp card, but they were readily available from Tascam. I have three 22's (one 22-4 and two 22-2's). No serious issues yet.

You will eventually need a tech or have to do your own diagnosis & repair with any deck. I have a tech near me, which is good since I have little experience with electronics. I bought a parts deck to mess with, but it turns out to be in great shape. Got lucky.
 
well, i personally believe that an ampex deck sounds very different than a tascam in general, a lot more "meat" and character, you can overdrive it without it getting too muddy/bass heavy ...

ampex 440 is the all-around best value, the most common deck, but be warned: all except the "C" series don't have auto sensors, you have to manually shuttle between FF & RW before stopping. you'll get used to it but it pre-dates tascam-era stuff, which is more user-friendly and "prosumer" oriented ... i'm not knocking it, but it's a different approach.

keep your eyes on craigslist, even eBay sometimes. you can see real good deals on 440s.
 
If you live in teh USA, I think Tascam wins for parts support, and the 22 series represent a decent compromise of space and feature. (I have a 22-4)

Depending on what you are doing you might find the 7" reels to be a limiting factor though. ALso, they are recommended for 1 mil tape, so you're limited to LPR-35 or NOS 457 for new tape. (I think Zonal has a 1mil tape if you live in Europe)

1mil is a recommendation and you'll find differing opinions here as to whether or not you can use 1.5 mil tape. At 15ips you're looking at ~16 minutes for 1.5 mil or ~24 minutes for 1.0 mil.
 
7'' reels are fine for me, most of what ill be mixing down won't' ever breach the 6 min mark...i'd just like a good deck to serve as my intro into this fabulous world of r2r. I'm no audiophile. Just need something that vibes with the workflow I envision for myself right now, and i believe that's mixing down to 1/4'' tape.
 
22 series are very easy on which to work, and everything is clearly available especially after you remove the top panel and the case.

A great piece of equipment.
 
22 gets my vote for all the reasons above. Great machine. Think of it as a 32 downsized for 7" reels. There are other differences of course but they are definitely at least cousins. One of the best 1/4" halftrack machines for the money AFAIC.

Ampex? 440. Most common...the real deal but getting into one be prepared that there is a learning curve...and like was mentioned above there are no logic niceties like with more contemporary offerings. Even if you get a 'C' version you should STILL "shuttle" the transport (slow to near stop condition by hitting the opposite fast wind function before actually hitting STOP, and always hit STOP before PLAY) because the motion sensor has been known to fail. You won't even find a tape counter on the 440. Stock up on leader tape...But its all class A discrete amp circuitry. Its a different animal.
 
I love my Tascam 22-2! Well, I've got two of them. One I’ve modded pretty heavily and the other is stock. Not much in the way of fancy features like more expensive models have, but man does it sound great! It's based on the TEAC X-3 chassis and many parts are interchangeable between the 22-2, X-3 X-300, Realistic TR-3000, etc. (By the way, the Realistic TR-3000 is an X-3 in disguise, built by TEAC for Radio Shack. And in fact the improvements Radio Shack asked for later came out in the TEAC X-300, so the Realistic TR-3000 is an improvement on the TEAC X3)

But where was I? Oh yeah… the 22-2. It’s super! It was designed to perform well with a variety of 1-mil tapes. It comes from the factory zeroed @ 185 nWb/m, but can easily be set for 250 nWb/m or higher. Works great with the following tapes… all of which I’ve used with it: Quantegy 407 & 457, 3M/Scotch 207, Maxell UD 35-90 & XLI 35-90B, AGFA/BASF/EMTEC PEM468/SM468, and BASF/EMTEC LPR-35.
 
just picked up a super clean 22-2 this weekend! Got it off CL. I've got 8 reels of Ampex 407 NOS (sealed) on the way. The heads are fairly clean, though they do show a little wear. Everything functions as it should.

So here is a question for you 22-2 users, if all im doing is mixing down to this deck, is noise reduction needed?
 
Just joined the 22-2 club myself a little over a week ago! Earlier today, I listened to an old demo tape I had tracked on a BR-20 about 13 years ago, and it sounded great!

You probably won't feel the need for any noise reduction as long as the levels are hot enough. That and the flavor of tape stock seem to have the most noticeable affect on how much hiss you get. Keeping it clean and demagnetized is important too.
 
xxmangoosexx said:
just picked up a super clean 22-2 this weekend! Got it off CL. I've got 8 reels of Ampex 407 NOS (sealed) on the way. The heads are fairly clean, though they do show a little wear. Everything functions as it should.

So here is a question for you 22-2 users, if all im doing is mixing down to this deck, is noise reduction needed?
Click to expand...

RE: Noise reduction, Note, that the Tascam DX-2D dbx units *will not work with this deck* even though the jack is the same, but can be modded real easily to a stand alone unit. (The DX-4D will not work w/ my 22-4) You'll have to decide how it sounds without.

Clean the tape path w/ 99% isopropyl alchohol. A little wear isn't going to hurt you too much, check these sites for a discussion:

Audio Tape Recorder Heads that have gone BAD !!!
JRF Magnetic Sciences: Taking a Head Trip

Please review the sticky shed thread here (it's a sticky pun intended by all I think.) NOS Ampex 407 will be bad tape if it was made before 1995. If the Ampex logo is in the middle of the box, it will have (or will develop soon enough) binder problems and be worthless. Don't use it. Look on the side of the box for some kind of date code if it starts with (19) 94 or earlier it is bad tape. The tape literally gets sticky and gets tar like goo all over the place. I found out about this the hard way when some Ampex 456 I bought in 1989 turned to goo on my Tascam 38, slowed the machine down to a complete halt.

Get yourself some NOS Quantegy 457 or new RMGI LPR-35 to start with. See Beck's list above for other NOS alternatives.
 
thanks for the pointers, since it's a mixdown deck (coming from may DAW and or 144/246 portastudios) ill have be hitting it pretty hot. I'll try not using noise reduction for now and see how it goes. I actually don't mind a little tape hiss for my music.

here is a photo of the tape i got - does it look like pre 2005? It definitely looks newer than 1994, but i could be wrong.

$(KGrHqEOKpYE1qzggcf3BNq6vkywKw~~_12.JPG
 
Eww. I would suspect that that's budget stock or something, or failing that some kind of pre-1990 box. Look around the edge, see if you can find a label with a barcode on top, and something like:
407-17313J
1/4" x 1200' 96228

The last bit, '96228' on mine - is the interesting part as it contains the manufacturing date. '96228' would be '1996, day 228'.
...I'm not sure if the ones in the plain boxes had these, though.
 
It's 407, not white box (of which I have a lot of Quantegy 031 and has been fine) but pre 1995 so from the sticky years.
 
darn. well it was pretty cheap. I guess I can bake the tape right? Is that in anyway a longterm fix?

I'll try and find some better tape.

As for the 22-2, it needs a new capstan belt - luckily TEAC still carries them and has them in stock. Went ahead and ordered a new pinch roller as well, the one that it came with looks good from the outside, but I bet is a bunch of goo waiting to happen. Cleaning the gooey rubber on the inside was fun. I hate that stuff, gets all over everything. Recently refurbished a 246, same problem.

Otherwise, still in great shape. Can't wait to start mixing into it. I've never had a three-head tape machine, so being able to monitor off tape has got to be a revelation.
 
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