I want!!!!

[miroslav]

Miro, I was pretty anti-pedal for a long time...but I'm really starting to see their use.

I use a few delays, reverb (since my main amp doesn't have any), vibrato, a couple ODs, boost (for solos and leads), volume, wah, a couple noise makers...it adds up pretty quick.

Are you talking about gigging use or recording...?

Way back...I used just a comp and wah for years when gigging, and those two only got used on a couple of tunes.
If I gigged today, I would probably include at least a 6-8 box pedalboard....pretty much same stuff you mentioned.

Right now I have a fairly decent pile of pedals in the studio, maybe around 25-30 boxes...several OD, a few fuzz, couple of wahs, some phase/flange, a couple of comps, and a few delay and reverb...etc....and I agree, use what you like if it works for you, but I have seen guys with like 20+ pedals on a board, and OK, maybe they really do need all of them to cover dozens of very specific tones if they are gigging in a cover band that covers a lot of flavors, though I still think some guys overkill with all that.
Like how often do you need to run your signal simultaneously through three OD pedals/a couple of fuzz pedals/a flange/a delay/and reverb all at the same time to get a specific tone?
But yeah, sometimes it can be just for fun too...so it's all cool.

For recording....I rarely use more than 1-2 boxes at a time, and it's more like just one box when really needed...but most times I'm going to try and get it with only the amp. The delays and reverb I don't count as much in the whole stomp box scenario, and when recording I almost always add them in during the mix, almost never when tracking.

 

[Lt. Bob]

So when you gig, what will you be using it with? The clean channel on the Mark V? Does that do a clean Twin sound fairly accurately?

I'd use it with whatever amp I'd be using. Anywhere from the Epi VJr to the Tiny Terror to the Blue Angel or Ampegs. I didn't get the idea that you NEED to use the RAH with a clean Fender .... that's just how the demo used it so that means most of it's sound is in the pedal itself. I imagine you could get that basic sound outta whatever you ran it into if you set it for a fairly clean sound.

I usually don't use any pedals at all with the Mark V.
A lot of my pedal usage is to get various distortion sounds and I get all of those I need outta the Mark V and since it has it's own rather largish footswitch I don't like having essentially TWO pedalboards at my feet.


As for having a buncha pedals on your board ..... it's not so much that you need them all at the same time ..... but if there's that many pedals you need , even if you only use one at a time, they all have to be on your pedalboard.
I have 2 OD/Distortion pedals ( I consider OD's and distortion the same thing just with different names ..... yeah yeah, I know the theory but in reality most OD's will distort and most distortions will OD) anyway ..... I have two of them but I could easily use 2 or 3 more since they each tend to have their own sounds. The crunch rhythm I want for the Stones is not the same crunch rhythm I want for SRV. And the sustainy lead sound I want for Santana isn't the same sustainy sound I want for ZZ Top.

And if I was one of those guys that obsessively tries to exactly reproduce tones I could use 10 of just OD boxes!
Personally I use 2 and get a couple of sounds I like and screw it. I play things the way I want and don't spend a lotta time trying to be a slavish impersonator of someone else.
But if I were ...... I can see having 20 of the things plus a talkbox!

 

[aaronmcoleman]

Are you talking about gigging use or recording...?

Way back...I used just a comp and wah for years when gigging, and those two only got used on a couple of tunes.
If I gigged today, I would probably include at least a 6-8 box pedalboard....pretty much same stuff you mentioned.

Right now I have a fairly decent pile of pedals in the studio, maybe around 25-30 boxes...several OD, a few fuzz, couple of wahs, some phase/flange, a couple of comps, and a few delay and reverb...etc....and I agree, use what you like if it works for you, but I have seen guys with like 20+ pedals on a board, and OK, maybe they really do need all of them to cover dozens of very specific tones if they are gigging in a cover band that covers a lot of flavors, though I still think some guys overkill with all that.
Like how often do you need to run your signal simultaneously through three OD pedals/a couple of fuzz pedals/a flange/a delay/and reverb all at the same time to get a specific tone?
But yeah, sometimes it can be just for fun too...so it's all cool.

For recording....I rarely use more than 1-2 boxes at a time, and it's more like just one box when really needed...but most times I'm going to try and get it with only the amp. The delays and reverb I don't count as much in the whole stomp box scenario, and when recording I almost always add them in during the mix, almost never when tracking.

I pretty much record the same way I play live. I get a lot of sounds just from the amp, but there are some OD sounds I like from pedals, and then all the effects (delays, vibrato, etc). Probably the only major difference is I do use more amp OD recording, and I add a lot of the guitar reverb after the fact rather than from the amp or from the verb pedals...just to have a little more control over how it sits in a mix.

But I do a lot of weird noisy stuff nowadays and some pedals are one trick ponies. I don't know if you've ever seen Nels Cline (Wilco), but he's kinda my inspiration...loads of pedals, loads of tone, but the base for his tone is awesome guitar (59 jazzmaster ->awesome amp, and his Klon.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

I'd use it with whatever amp I'd be using. Anywhere from the Epi VJr to the Tiny Terror to the Blue Angel or Ampegs. I didn't get the idea that you NEED to use the RAH with a clean Fender .... that's just how the demo used it so that means most of it's sound is in the pedal itself. I imagine you could get that basic sound outta whatever you ran it into if you set it for a fairly clean sound.

I usually don't use any pedals at all with the Mark V.
A lot of my pedal usage is to get various distortion sounds and I get all of those I need outta the Mark V and since it has it's own rather largish footswitch I don't like having essentially TWO pedalboards at my feet.


As for having a buncha pedals on your board ..... it's not so much that you need them all at the same time ..... but if there's that many pedals you need , even if you only use one at a time, they all have to be on your pedalboard.
I have 2 OD/Distortion pedals ( I consider OD's and distortion the same thing just with different names ..... yeah yeah, I know the theory but in reality most OD's will distort and most distortions will OD) anyway ..... I have two of them but I could easily use 2 or 3 more since they each tend to have their own sounds. The crunch rhythm I want for the Stones is not the same crunch rhythm I want for SRV. And the sustainy lead sound I want for Santana isn't the same sustainy sound I want for ZZ Top.

And if I was one of those guys that obsessively tries to exactly reproduce tones I could use 10 of just OD boxes!
Personally I use 2 and get a couple of sounds I like and screw it. I play things the way I want and don't spend a lotta time trying to be a slavish impersonator of someone else.
But if I were ...... I can see having 20 of the things plus a talkbox!

I don't do cover stuff, but I always have 3 ODs on my board...and that's because I limit myself to 3, and at least 1 boost to push the amp into OD. All the different flavors that are currently out there make playing so much fun, but sometimes I have to step back and realize I don't wanna haul around a 100lb board...so just the essentials 12-15.

 

[miroslav]

Yeah...I guess if you need lots of specific tones, I can see someone ending up with a huge pedal board...especially if like Lt. Bob says, you want/need to reproduce a lot of tones perfectly, you could then end up with multiple boxes that essentially do the same thing but just have slightly different tonal shades.

Like I said, if I was gigging these days I would have a pedal board...and I'm sure after awhile, I might go past my essential 6-8 pedals, as I refined tones and what have you. I actually started buying a bunch of pedals awhile ago with that intention, and I even have 3 looper/switcher boxes, as I was already formulating how I might want to chain pedals and what switching options I might want to have....but just haven't gotten back out doing gigs, though even with the studio, I felt it was productive to have some decent tone variety on hand for recording.

I also can see how guys who play live with a certain rig might end up wanting to record that way too.

I'm still somewhat in the more basic tone mindset for a lot of things, but I certainly am not anti-pedal like I was way back, and at the time, the other guitar player had a bunch, which was his thing...I mostly just went with the amp, but then, I wasn't as concerned about nailing cover tones as much as he was at the time.

The thing that concerns me when I would see 20 pedals daisy-chained, is the potential tone-suck, as not all great sounding pedals we love to use are alway true-bypass....which is one of the reasons I picked up the loopers, as I was considering how to minimize the signal paths while still having options.
So yeah...I'm not against pedals at all, and I think unless you just play one style of music always, you kinda need a bag of tricks to keep the night interesting.

Aaron...what kind of pedals do you build....like from kits and stuff, or do you go into total design-from-scratch mode?

 

[aaronmcoleman]

I build a from scratch. I started with using schematics I could find on the internet...and that's still what I mostly do (you'd be amazed what's out there, pretty much everything). Over time I've tested components and values and have some really nice mods for standard schematics, or used standards as a starting point to make my own. Delays are hard to make because most use some digital programing that I don't know. I've just started experimenting with my own reverb box. I'm in the process of building a pedal board made up 100% of stuff I built, including the isolated power supply.

Right now I have a killer 808, OCD, and Klon as my drive section, a Zvex SHO as my boost, a Heart Throb Vibrato, a couple super fun fuzzes (silicon and germanium based) and a (getting there) springy reverb that I've built and modified to my liking.

Yeah, tone suck is a big problem for a lot of pedal boards. I'm of the mind set that sometimes it doesn't matter that much, but usually it can be limited through proper placement of true bypass, buffered, and individual buffers...but yeah it does suck tone sometimes. When it's critical (like recording) I'll often unhook the pedals I want to use and keep my signal as short as possible.

 

[Greg_L]

I'm historically NOT a pedal guy. I'm a plug in and go guy. I'm a use-the-right-guitar-and-amp guy. I've since relaxed my anti-pedal stance for the most part though since aquiring my own serious geetar equipment. My kind of music doesn't require textures and colors and all the bullshit associated with tone snobbery. But admittedly I haven't played guitar in a band in over a decade. I record the shit out of some guitars though. I can totally see a gigging cover guitarist needing a pile of pedals if they're interested in trying to recreate the original tones they're covering. I used to point and laugh at those guys, but not so much now. If they can play good and get the sounds they want/need, I'm not so judgemental anymore. I do know how hard it is to ape certain sounds. I've always been cool with effects pedals like flangers and phasers and delays and wahs and shit. I like that stuff. Except chorus, I hate chorus. Chorus totally sucks. Nothing sounds as dated and adult contemporary lame as a guitar dripping with chorus.

Anyway, I recently bought a little pedal board and loaded it with what I've cobbled together over the past few months through trades, craigslist, what I already had, and what I got for free.

Not much to see. Nothing special. The EQ is really nice in the loop and as a clean boost out front, but it stays off most of the time. Got it new for cheap with a coupon from GC online. The Rat is actually my prize pedal. Lol. I don't like it really, and I never use it even when dicking around, but it's true old school and I've had it forever. Got it in a trade I think way back in like the late 80's or early 90's. It's one of the desirable serial numbers. The Tubescreamer is your standard 80's hair metal sounding dist/OD shit. Sounds good with a Marshall. Nice for leads, not much else. It was free. Given to me by one of my bandmates. The wah is a nice CL find. Crybaby 535Q. I'm not a big wah guy, but you gotta have one right? I wanted a nice one. Bought it from a kid, new in box for like 60 or 80 bucks. Can't remember exactly. Sounds great. Polytuner. Pretty standard. Got it with a big coupon at GC. The TC Elec flashback delay goes into the loop and it's really cool. You can get some trippy shit out of that thing. Like the wah, I'm not a big delay guy, but I wanted a nice one. 80 bucks from a bandmate.

So all in all I'm pretty set. A flanger/phaser and tremolo would be nice to have. I got more pedals than I ever thought I would. 6 of them. Lol.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

that flashback is pretty cool. i like it a lot.

you can use the TS as a really nice boost. i have one set with the drive pretty low for certain lead/solo parts. same thing with the RAT, but I kinda like the lofi sound of the rat pushing a slightly crunchy amp.

i don't think pedals are just for cover bands though, as a few people have alluded to. i have one OD for countryish rhythm parts, one for heavy OD stuff, and one for lighter OD leads. I do a lot of that wiggly kinda stuff with delays and vibes and kaos pad etc. but, i totally get it that a good guitar + amp is the base for everything...and for most people can cover everything they need.

 

[Lt. Bob]

i don't think pedals are just for cover bands though, as a few people have alluded to. .

I mostly play covers but I make absolutely no effort to reproduce exact tones or even the songs themselves.
I go for sounds I like and as far as the originals go, about as close is I come is to use some sort of distortion for distorted parts maybe.
I play what I want and I play it the way I want with the sound I want.
Playing covers simply means you play the songs ..... but if you're a good player there is still a lot of freedom if you choose to not be a typewriter.

 

[aaronmcoleman]

I mostly play covers but I make absolutely no effort to reproduce exact tones or even the songs themselves.
I go for sounds I like and as far as the originals go, about as close is I come is to use some sort of distortion for distorted parts maybe.
I play what I want and I play it the way I want with the sound I want.
Playing covers simply means you play the songs ..... but if you're a good player there is still a lot of freedom if you choose to not be a typewriter.

There's a really good 80s cover band here in Long Beach. They play pretty much everything exactly as it's played on the albums. But, most other copy and paste cover bands bore me.

 

[miroslav]

There's a certain skill needed to nail covers exactly....but I couldn't do that gig after gig and still find enjoyment in playing, and like Lt. Bob, when I use to gig, I was more into adding some original flair, while still doing justice to the original.
Though I guess some players can get off on their ability to do stuff exactly like the originals and the crowd appreciation for doing that.

Everyone has their preferences and pleasures....

 

[Lt. Bob]

There's a certain skill needed to nail covers exactly....but I couldn't do that gig after gig and still find enjoyment in playing, and like Lt. Bob, when I use to gig, I was more into adding some original flair, while still doing justice to the original.
Though I guess some players can get off on their ability to do stuff exactly like the originals and the crowd appreciation for doing that.

Everyone has their preferences and pleasures....

I'm capable of it of course. And when I was younger most of the bands did in fact do that. If we did Roundabout by Yes it was note for note.
But some of that is connected to being a less experienced player. It's easy to copy something note for note really .... it's not so easy to wing it and do it differently every night but still play well enough and compelling enough to catch people's ears.

And it has something to do with the music too. Roundabout doesn't have a lotta room for individualism. It has some over the solo section and solos are fair game for whatever the hell you want to do but there are sections of that song that can't be altered without the very reason for even doing it being lost.

My current songlist is 511 songs though ... ranging from jazz to rock to soul to country and there's very few ... maybe only a couple of dozen ..... that I don't stretch out and do my own thing throughout the song.

Like Miro .... I'd get sick of playing the same thing every night pretty quickly. It's part of why I haven't gone to Disney looking for work. That's not music .... it's a 9 to 5 where you go to the town square at 9:45 and play these 6 songs exacrtly like this and then go change and head over to the Cosmic club or wherever to do the set there and it's always the same songs played the same way in the same order ....... shudder

 

[aaronmcoleman]

I saw an interview with Jeff Tweedy from Wilco (my all time favorite band), and he said he likes not having any "hit songs" because he doesn't have to play "Born in the USA" every night for the rest of his life. Makes sense...if you're playing 150+ shows a year it would get super boring having to do the same 18 songs every night and have to worry that some reviewer is going to say, "yeah it would have been a cool show except he didn't play born to run".

Of course, that kind of cash would make up for that!

 

[aaronmcoleman]

back to pedals...I have a lot because 1) I love building them and experimenting with sounds, and 2) the let me recreate whatever sound I have in my head. So it's not just for nailing cover sounds, its for nailing the tone you hear in your head.

 

[andrew_s]

Good gear for that money Take it!