robgreen
no face
Well, it did bring me to the conclusion that crucifixion would be preferable to checking out either VH II or Women And Children... if that's what you mean?
Is there any song subject matter that you find hard to listen to ?
- Thread starter grimtraveller
- Start date
Well, it did bring me to the conclusion that crucifixion would be preferable to checking out either VH II or Women And Children... if that's what you mean?
They do it to pander to america's lowest common denominator. There are four things the poor of america will gladly spend all of their money on:
1) beer
2) cigarettes
3) lottery tickets
4) God fearin' flag wavin' country music
jimistone
long standing member
Same with rockers... They spend money on
Sex
Illegal drugs
Booze
Godless flag burning rock and roll music
I guess it's pretty much the same thing reguardless of the type of music
You say that like it's a bad thing.
guitaristic
prophet of Dave
As a Christian, I have a problem with any music genre defined as "Christian ______". I think it's kind of dumb. Settings aside "worship music" like Chris Tomlin and stuff like that (a whole separate issue lol), I don't think there's any such thing as "Christian rock" or whatever. A rock song is a rock song, whether it was written by a Christian or not. Usually it comes down to the lyrical content. But what determines that line? It's too vague.
Good example--I was on the 3rd row at a Switchfoot concert this past weekend and they melted my face. Riffs and solos were shredded, bass was slapped, notes were grunge-ishly screamed. Was it "Christian music"? Not really. The words "Jesus/Cross/Salvation/Sin/etc" were never said, so it definitely wasn't "praise and worship." Are the fellows in the band Christians? yes.
At the end of the show, their lead singer was like "Thanks for coming out tonight. We're just a band trying to bring a little light to the darkness." Not Christian music, but not completely secular either. I like it.
Good example--I was on the 3rd row at a Switchfoot concert this past weekend and they melted my face. Riffs and solos were shredded, bass was slapped, notes were grunge-ishly screamed. Was it "Christian music"? Not really. The words "Jesus/Cross/Salvation/Sin/etc" were never said, so it definitely wasn't "praise and worship." Are the fellows in the band Christians? yes.
At the end of the show, their lead singer was like "Thanks for coming out tonight. We're just a band trying to bring a little light to the darkness." Not Christian music, but not completely secular either. I like it.
jimistone
long standing member
Well, the labeling of rock as "Christian" Rock serves a purpose. Most of the secular world wants no part of Christian ANYTHING. So, it serves as a warning label of sorts...kind of a "offensive material inside" warning if you will.
That way people can automatically dislike it immediately without listening to it.
I have put some disciple on for some of my non-Christian friends and they're like; "Man... That rocks!!!"
Then when I tell them it's a Christian band they immediately don't like it anymore.
Lol
I guess to be fair I would be the same way about Satan worshiping music.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
The down side {though not down enough to make it a bad thing} to that is the kind of thing that you had happening in the late 60s and early 70s where the Charles Mansons of this world 'interpreted' lyrics as almost commands to bring down straight society, by any means necessary, including murder. He even said it himself, that the songs the Beatles and other groups were putting out were telling "the kids" to rise up and kill. It was ironic that one of his loved lines from "Piggies" {'what they need's a damn goood whacking !'} that, in their minds at the time, justified his groups' actions actually came from George Harrison's Mum ! He wanted something that rhymed with "in their lives there's something lacking."
That said, it's not so much that I like ambiguity {although I'll deliberately be ambiguous in some songs} as much as many of the lyrics I like are ambiguous and I don't dislike ambiguity.
For the last couple of days as I've been driving around, I've been listening to Family's debut album "Music in a doll's house" over and over. Described as a swirling, perverted, densely hallucinatory wall of sound, it was a hard listen initially and as I've resequenced the order and left a couple of the duff tracks off, I find that I am loving it. It's taken nearly 7 years though. I couldn't tell you what most of the songs are about though. I understand the language, I get certain phrases {"Old songs, new songs, keep on singing", "Winter time, it brings me down"} but because of Roger Chapman's voice, the actual meaning of the words is almost irrelevant, whether or not they're solid or ambiguous. Thinking about it, the singing on the album is a pretty good example of the voice "being used as an instrument" and this was one band that, with harmonica, violin, cello, piano, mellotron, organ and saxophones in addition to guitar, bass and drums, already had plenty of alternative colours.
dainbramage
New member
dainbramage
New member
As a non-Christian, me too!
BroKen_H
Re-member
There's the rub. There's so many people and bands that claim to be "Christian" and write music that they say is "Christian" that there's really no difference anymore. If you listened to Wes King, Keith Green, Larry Norman and the like, you had no doubt that they were Christian and their music was Christian. So why label it? On the other hand if the music is so worldly and the lyrics can be interpreted to be "I love my girlfriend" and not "I love my Savior" then what's the point of calling it "Christian?"
SamWattRock
New member
In younger days, my brother had a band and wrote a song about "White powder." One of the black guys sang it "White power." Didn't care to distinguish. Wasn't concerned. Any vulgarity would do.
When a culture is trending toward vulgarity, as ours evidently is, its skin gets tougher, as actual interaction moves from trust to fear to the extremities, but those of us who have earned the status of "old-as-dirt" and "rickety" will keep our skin thin.
Give me a song about an everyday emotional experience that we all can relate to, make it simple enough to understand, but give it a good hook that makes it memorable. A good example of lyric I heard this week that made me think about this topic was "Smoke From a Distant Fire" (Sanford-Townsend Band)
If you truly make it vulgar without the safety of a clever double-entendre, count me out.
As far as the lefty-loosey, righty-tighty stuff, you tread there at your own peril, and if you can't do race relations better than Sly and the Family Stone, you might just emulate or vacate that space.
citizen77
New member
Absolutely. Just as there is no "Christian" songs, there are no "Satan" songs. There are songs with lyrical content that worship God (worship = ascribe worth to), as there are songs that worship sex, worship anti-politicalism, worship antidisestablishmentarianism (i have always wanted to use that in a real sentence!), worship self, etc....
Here's a test.
What is this song about:
Draw me close to you
Never let me go
I lay it all down again
To hear you say that I'm your friend
You are my desire
No one else will do
Cause nothing else can take your place
To feel the warmth of your embrace
Help me find the way
Bring me back to you
You're all I want
You're all I've ever needed
You're all I want
Help me know you are near
This is the crappiest "love song" in history. I can honestly say that I hate it. Many of you will probably know this song, many won't.
And guess what... this is a "Christian" song.
This is a "Jesus is my boyfriend" song.
For those who are not Christians, this is just a crappy love song if you don't know the context where it is performed. For Christians, it's actually theologically meaningful, and I have no idea why. There is no theological content. There is nothing that builds up the body of Christ with knowledge, understanding or anything important. It is just an emotional trigger song to make Christians feel good. This is the subject matter that I can't listen to.
citizen77
New member
“There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of the deepest messages of the Incarnation.” - Madeleine L'Engle
I interpret that to mean if God is the epitome of sacred and became the lowest form of secular by becoming a human, even mundane subjects of every day life could be sacred.
A good way to describe music would be "sacred" and "secular" and that would be defined by their usage (religious or profane). Bands can have topics that are sacred and not be defined into a particular religion. Bands like Switchfoot write songs about life, the profane, but they do not write sacred music. They are Christians in a band, but that does not make them a "Christian band." (and a somewhat lame argument is you can't get christian music "saved" because it is not a person, so music cannot be "christian.")
Here's a twist to think about:
If a self-proclaimed "atheist" listens to music that is secular, that means they are listening to their sacred music since it is music "without god."
But the Christian understands that God created man and gave all talents to all people. Leading back to the L'Engle quote, anything a non-Christian does still praises God with their talents, even if used with the express purpose of not using their talents for God's glory (or even against).
(music and theology are my absolute two favorite subjects, which is why i got my undergrad in guitar and bible. That doesn't make me the "authority" on these subjects at all, it just makes me passionate about it and something i'm very interested in discussing. disagree with me if you wish and let me know what you think)
BroKen_H
Re-member
Citizen 77 has found a great example to my point. I have made the same point about this song (we sing it at my church). It has a simple chord progression and the lyrics are easy for the congregation to remember. But, it's got no message, no value. It could very well be written by someone who has alienated their spouse and wants to get their relationship right. It could be any number of relationships. That's the problem. That's why I prefer to have a message. But I'm not everyone. And I realize that everyone has their own preference and opinion.
deadtolove
New member
There has only really ever been one song that I can think of that the subject matter bothered me. "Uncle Bill" by Tony Carey on his Cold War Kids album. The music and the arrangement are freaking amazing. The lyrics just make me feel icky for enjoying any part of the song at all.
Tony Carey - Lyrics
"Uncle Bill"
Uncle Bill was here again today
He came from very far away
He came to share my room
Uncle Bill says we are best friends
We stick together thick and thin
I'll be a big boy soon
Uncle Bill crawled into bed with me
Said he had something there for me
It was the same thing that he'd always had before
He said "hello, my little man
Don't you cry that's just my hand
Just my hand and maybe something more"
Ohohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my mother to go blind
I don't want my house to burn
That happens all the time
And Bill says that will happen if I tell
Yes there's a world of trouble waiting if I tell
Oh I won't tell....
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilei... Uncle Bill
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilalei... Uncle Bill
Bill is mother's brother
And he lives three states away
She says
He's lonely
'Cause he never had a wife
Ohohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my mother to go blind
I don't want my house to burn
That happens all the time
And Bill says that will happen if I tell
There's a whole wide world of trouble there if I tell
He says only a very bad boy would ever tell
Yeah only a very bad boy would ever tell
And I won't tell
I won't tell
I won't tell...
Ohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my dad to lose his job
I don't want to meet the wolf
I don't want to see the blob
But Bill says that will happen if I tell
A bad thing's going to happen if I tell
He says only a very bad boy would ever tell
There's a whole wide world of trouble if I tell
I will ride my bike out to the Mill
The one that has the covered bridge
And throw myself into the stream
I'll hold my breath 'till I turn blue
And longer 'till my heart is through
And maybe I won't have to dream
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilei... Uncle Bill
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilalei... Uncle Bill
Tony Carey - Lyrics
"Uncle Bill"
Uncle Bill was here again today
He came from very far away
He came to share my room
Uncle Bill says we are best friends
We stick together thick and thin
I'll be a big boy soon
Uncle Bill crawled into bed with me
Said he had something there for me
It was the same thing that he'd always had before
He said "hello, my little man
Don't you cry that's just my hand
Just my hand and maybe something more"
Ohohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my mother to go blind
I don't want my house to burn
That happens all the time
And Bill says that will happen if I tell
Yes there's a world of trouble waiting if I tell
Oh I won't tell....
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilei... Uncle Bill
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilalei... Uncle Bill
Bill is mother's brother
And he lives three states away
She says
He's lonely
'Cause he never had a wife
Ohohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my mother to go blind
I don't want my house to burn
That happens all the time
And Bill says that will happen if I tell
There's a whole wide world of trouble there if I tell
He says only a very bad boy would ever tell
Yeah only a very bad boy would ever tell
And I won't tell
I won't tell
I won't tell...
Ohoh Uncle Bill
I don't want my dad to lose his job
I don't want to meet the wolf
I don't want to see the blob
But Bill says that will happen if I tell
A bad thing's going to happen if I tell
He says only a very bad boy would ever tell
There's a whole wide world of trouble if I tell
I will ride my bike out to the Mill
The one that has the covered bridge
And throw myself into the stream
I'll hold my breath 'till I turn blue
And longer 'till my heart is through
And maybe I won't have to dream
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilei... Uncle Bill
Leileilaleilalei... leileilaleilalei... Uncle Bill
I have a friend on my block, and she works for the NY Times, she's always looking for sensationalist web news to create a stirr. "social media nazis" on your kids favorite music blog? Perhaps. Let me send her this link. Ya' never know. Peace and one love to all. Smh
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Well, yes it does, a huge range. But that kind of implies that the subject matter, whatever it may be, is going to be approached from a strict biblical perspective.
I am interested, for better or worse, in what the artist feels or sees or wants to comment on. So many christian writers, you never know what they actually feel about anything because so often they are tied to, well, the bible. So they're often presenting the views and visions of someone else.
I think that's kind of harsh. Not every song needs to be some deep composition designed to convict the human heart of the magnitude of it's sin.
Why should an artist be limited to a small audience ? Is it wrong for artists to want to grow ? The reality of art is that the consumer has no control over what the artist produces, only over whether they'll like it and buy it or not. And the artist never truly knows what the punters will accept. Being confident someone will like your work is not the same as being sure they will. There may be a certain level of artistic compromise in that the artist may tone down some of their wilder flights of fancy, or chart new ground {for them} where they believe there's an audience, but that's not "selling out for cash."
But should there be ? An artist's job is not to continually bombard the listener with a single subject. A human being that writes songs should really have a variety of subject matter to comment upon or enlighten with. Even if they're wrong or later change their minds on things.
I'm certainly not against a songwriter sharing or alluding to their specific religious/spiritual/political/philosophical beliefs on occasion. But not in every flaming song ! One can get away with that for a while but there comes a point where it's monotonous.
I agree with that, but there is a reason why some music was/is designated like that. I remember when I became a christian in '85, that was in that time when the whole secular vs sacred thing was at white heat and in the same way that in the counterculture during the mid to late 60s people were thought of as square and boring and in league with "the man" if they didn't take drugs and were therefore judged and marginalized, christian groups in the 80s & 90s {and still} would judge you according to how you dressed, if you watched TV and what you watched and the kind of music you listened to, among other things.
For my first 13 months as a believer, I didn't listen to any music. When I began to again, it was natural that I should want to find out if there were any funky, rocking artists that had any experiences in this life that I was new to. I discovered loads over the next three years and that wouldn't have been possible without the designation of
The irony is that back then the designation worked against the artist because many of the so called church leaders {and by extension, "their" congregations} baulked at the word "rock" while many of the critics and record label movers & shakers {and by extension the readers and buyers} baulked at the word "christian."
The lyrics were truly horrible in what they convey. But our world is made up of a lot of horrible things. Reporting on them, satirizing them, offering a view on them, these are not the same as glorifying or advocating them.
If I liked the song {I've never heard it}, I would continue to listen to it because the writer is shining a light on a situation that is easy to close one's mind to. It's not really any different to the Who's "Uncle Ernie" from the 'Tommy' album and I truly dig that song. "Enjoying" the song doesn't mean enjoying what it's about. There are tons of songs that relate subject matter or stories that few people in their right mind could "enjoy" while enjoying the song. I'm not thrilled about the subject matter in Hendrix's "Hey Joe" or D'angelo's "Shit, damn, motherfucker" which both involve a woman/wife cheating on a guy who in rage murders her {and in D'angelo's one, the lover as well}.
But both are superb songs that I'm happy to listen to. They shine a light into a dark aspect of the human condition. That's one of many things that songs can do.