Is there any song subject matter that you find hard to listen to ?

[BroKen_H]

This is a great thread. A couple things: 1) Good Christian music IS hard to come by, but by definition, it SHOULD be preachy. There's a lot of good bands out there, but it really depends on what you wanta listen to.
2) If you mostly like punk, Greg, try Five Iron Frenzy, Argyle Park, Pocket Change, O C Supertones. Might be something there to spark your interest.
3) I like the remake of John the Revelator that Phil Keaggy made. Give it a listen.
Anyway, what turns me down in music lyrically, is opposite of what the main thread is. I don't like music that hides the lyrics. Yngve's The Viking tells a message, but As Above, So Below doesn't give me anything more than a bunch of words made to sound good in a "guitar god" song.
David Bowie wrote some great music, but a lot of his stuff is so flexible to the listener, that it just turns me down. I like a clearly defined lyrical statement. If you are looking for man sex songs, All the Young Dudes is for you. If you want to hear about teen angst, or teen problems, All the Young Dudes is a great song. If you are looking for a political statement hidden in lyrical prose, you should listen to All the Young Dudes. Many feel that this makes the song great, but that kind of lyric turns me off. People hear what they want to hear. And that's just the way it is.
But I listen to Christian music pretty exclusively now, so I want a clear message. There are too many Christian bands giving fluff lyrics without meaning, or worse, secular meaning.

 

[grimtraveller]

But I listen to Christian music pretty exclusively now, so I want a clear message.

As a christian, I want from an artist that is a christian the same thing that I want from any artist ~ good songs. It's not for me to dictate to any artist what their songs should be about. Au contraire, the songs exist before I get the album or song so I'm going in there to hear what's there. If and when I dig the song, then somewhere along the line whatever meaning might be there, I'll get to. But many many songs don't have a message or may have more than one.
The biggest problem that exists for many christian artists is that their subject matter revolves around a singular subject and there comes a point where if you deal with a single subject matter, you will be repeating yourself, you leave yourself nowhere to go. People will feel they are being preached at and listeners will be listeners no more.
So those that you say knock out fluff or secular lyrics are being what they should be ~ artists with observations from a specific world view rather than bearers of a message that other believers want them to herald. Larry Norman put it bluntly in his "music should be art, not propaganda" statement. Within that, sometimes one's faith will come up, in the same way that sometimes, someone with kids may write about them.

 

[BroKen_H]

The Bible, although centrally themed, has much subject matter to draw from. There is a lot of repetition in Christian music, surely. Lots of love your neighbor, and He died for you. Doesn't mean it can't be written differently and well. But how about some of the other subplots. I wrote a song about David and Goliath called Suddenly He Turned that deals with facing your fears, among other things. Christian music does not have to expressly write about Jesus, but should at least allude to Him.
What I was trying to express was lyrics that are written as the best sounding words to make the song, as opposed to the best way of saying something to make your point disturb me. (Although some would say I'm already pretty disturbed). I just like preachy songs, sorry, can't help it. I like poetry, too, but especially if it talks about a clear concise topic, and not just fluffy nice sounding words strung together to please the ear. A lot of people just want to have their ears tickled, I want to hear a message.

 

[grimtraveller]

Personally, I can't say that any particular subject matter brings me to a point where I feel I can't listen to the song housing the subject.
But there are plenty of songs where I might feel that way because it's what's contained in and conveyed through that lyric that will matter to me. So for example I'm not going to reject a song "because it's about Hitler." It's dependent on what it's conveying about Hitler that is the final arbiter.
There are not only so many different things to write about, there are so many different angles on many of those things.
Before I even get there though, I have to be musically moved by the song. There does not yet exist the song that I don't like musically but I like lyrically and will keep whereas there may be thousands that apply the other way, where the lyrics aren't much cop or I can't understand them or are in another language, but the song hangs together so well. One of those possible thousands is Deep Purple's "Into the fire." I haven't got a clue what it's about and I don't think the lyrics are much cop but I love the song still, 34 years later.

 

[jimistone]

Yeah stuff like;
"I am he as you are he as we are we and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun see how they fly.
I'm dying"

Sounds really cool but dosen't really have a specific meaning. So, I get where you're coming from.
On the other hand music, just like painting, can be abstract and the listener can draw their own conclusions as to the meaning. Much like impressionist artists of old or the more modern progressive artists

Words can create strong visual images even when they are put together haphazardly and not in coherent sentences
It's all art.
Different strokes I guess

 

[grimtraveller]

Christian music does not have to expressly write about Jesus, but should at least allude to Him.

Which is why it becomes music for christians only and it becomes a waste of time trying to turn people onto it. Three or four Lennon songs about Yoko was cool. Three or four years worth stretched many peoples' patience ~ and wallets.

 

[grimtraveller]

Yeah stuff like;
"I am he as you are he as we are we and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun see how they fly.
I'm crying"

Sounds really cool but dosen't really have a specific meaning.

"I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together" was written in the midst of an acid trip according to it's author. But that one sentence, to anyone that's prepared to look into it, explains to a large extent, that feeling of oneness with all things and the universe and the universal brother/sisterhood that so many members of the hippy fraternity felt in the early acid experience days as the Beat movement morphed into the hippy movement. It's a deep lyric apparently couched in nonsense verse, a la Edward Lear. The rest of the song is a combination of the dark side of acid dredging up scarring memories, pot shots at English school system and law authorities and an attempt to get away with what the author saw as stuff Dylan had been getting away with for years, plus his love of surreal poetry.

 

[Greg_L]

I have a theory: maybe christian music sucks because people that grow up influenced by christian music only know christian music, so when they decide to make music themselves, they make more crappy christian music and the cycle continues. They don't have a strong foundation to build from.

The good thing about christian music is that you don't have to write good songs at all and christians will still buy it up.

 

[grimtraveller]

I have a theory: maybe christian music sucks because people that grow up influenced by christian music only know christian music, so when they decide to make music themselves, they make more crappy christian music and the cycle continues. They don't have a strong foundation to build from.

There's some truth in that and it also depends on which kind of christian music one is talking about because genre wise, it's as wide as the mainstream.
But in truth, all the generations of young christians of the rock era have grown up listening to the same stuff we all did. Sometimes secretly.
The first wave of christian artists, say from about '67 to the very early 80s found themselves shunned on all fronts. The world at large didn't want song after song about God/Jesus backed with watered down music and the church at large thought they were wrong to play rock, pop, soul and funk and utilize drums, electric guitars and long hair so they ostracized them.
So the artists for the most part existed on their own, in a kind of vacuum, putting out the odd album here and there. They were known as vanity pressings {by no means exclusively christian ~ lots of unheard of failed artists did them} and many of them were among the first consistent home recorders, believe it or not.
By the mid 80s when the whole CCM phenomena became an industry, that's when you could look at 2 or 3 actual generations of christian artists. And banality reigned supreme as the music became an almost irrelevant backdrop to the message.
Personally, I thought that first wave did the most interesting stuff, even if often the lyrics were banal. There was some damn good stuff there.
Unfortunately it got lost in a sea of suckishness.

The good thing about christian music is that you don't have to write good songs at all and christians will still buy it up.

It's a mystery !
Actually, it's not really........

 

[BroKen_H]

The good thing about Christian music is that you don't have to write good songs at all and Christians will still buy it up.

Another problem with the Christian music genres. Many people who fail in secular music write "positive message" songs and call it "Christian" and make it big. Real Christians can spot it and ignore it.
But then others use Christian music as a springboard i.e. Amy Grant, Chris Rice, etc. They get tired of being "limited" to that small audience and sell out for cash...
There really isn't much difference today between what some of the "Christian" bands are doing, and the secular bands.

 

[Greg_L]

Wasn't that ghastly Creed band like a faux christian turned secular kind of thing? Like their lyrics were sort of spiritual, but they kept it just vague and general enough to sell to the heathens of the world?

 

[fat_fleet]

Wasn't that ghastly Creed band like a faux christian turned secular kind of thing? Like their lyrics were sort of spiritual, but they kept it just vague and general enough to sell to the heathens of the world?

Yep. I think there are more "christian" bands like that out there than most realize.

 

[gecko zzed]

Larry Norman put it bluntly in his "music should be art, not propaganda" statement.

Larry Norman sums it up for me so much better than me saying I don't like being preached at.

David Bowie wrote some great music, but a lot of his stuff is so flexible to the listener, that it just turns me down. I like a clearly defined lyrical statement.

I am a great fan of ambiguity. That's because it allows for so many interpretations, which means you have the potential to reach many more people.

 

[BroKen_H]

Wasn't that ghastly Creed band like a faux christian turned secular kind of thing? Like their lyrics were sort of spiritual, but they kept it just vague and general enough to sell to the heathens of the world?

Great example!!

 

[BroKen_H]

But however you feel about progrock, Theocracy does not flinch at the message. And the music is pretty top notch.

BTW, while on the subject (and thinking about the "are instrumentals songs" thread, what are your opinions of Christian instrumental music? If there's no message, is it Christian? Or is it to do with the Christian playing that makes it Christian?

 

[robgreen]

VH I, II, Women and Children First, and Fair Warning. All awesome albums, killer tunes, great harmonies (the underrated Michael Anthony!) and unforgettable pop hooks. You could pretty much throw a dart at any of those records and hit an awesome song.

I wasn't sure if you were kidding or not here, so I just quickly flicked through VH I. You were definitely right about one thing - it did make me want to throw darts at their records. And probably anyone who subjected me to Van Halen ever again...

 

[Greg_L]

I wasn't sure if you were kidding or not here, so I just quickly flicked through VH I. You were definitely right about one thing - it did make me want to throw darts at their records. And probably anyone who subjected me to Van Halen again...

 

[fat_fleet]

I wasn't sure if you were kidding or not here, so I just quickly flicked through VH I. You were definitely right about one thing - it did make me want to throw darts at their records. And probably anyone who subjected me to Van Halen ever again...

Wow, so you weren't taken by the subtlety of their Christian message?

 

[jimistone]

The thing about Christian music is this...
There are two schools if thought on what it's supposed to be.
Some look at Christian music as a form of gospel, just like the spoken word from the pulpit. It should be reverent, glorify god, preach salvation, and lead others to Christ. Those who take this view will be offended by anything that dosen't fit that description. To them any and all gospel music is for worship and no other purpose.

The other school of thought is that there are different kinds of Christian music for different purposes. There is worship/praise music and there is Christian music for pure entertainment. I don't think Christian music that's, what I consider, art should glorify sin...but I don't think it has to be a musical sermon either.

There is nothing wrong with having some rocking music that is just fun to listen to that is aimed at Christian audiences.
Country music artists have been doing it with the country music gendre for years.

Randy houser put "in Gods time" on a secular country album and people sing that one to backing tracks in church on Sunday morning

 

[grimtraveller]

BTW, while on the subject (and thinking about the "are instrumentals songs" thread, what are your opinions of Christian instrumental music? If there's no message, is it Christian? Or is it to do with the Christian playing that makes it Christian?

Let's put it like this¬> christian rock was the only "genre" so delineated purely on it's lyrical content. I only use it as a label because I don't think labels are inherently a bad thing. Everything has a name and therefore potentially can be labelled.
But for me, there is only music, which is then subdivided into lots of categories for covenience. Bob Marley and Jethro Tull and the Damned don't play the same kind of music. Therefore, we need labels of some kind. But it can go too far and "instrumental christian music" is an example. Were Koinonia a christian band, a christian instrumental band or a soft jazz band whose members were christians or a bunch of christian guys working in the mainstream that wanted to make music together in an atmosphere that they could feel freer in ?
More to the point, was their music good ?