Oregon Suspends Basic Skills Graduation Requirement in the Name of Equity

[leddy]

Kinda heavy, but.....

Yeah that’s on the money.

 

[60's guy]

We're now at a turning point, or their isn't going to be much of a future to look forward to.

I concur.

 

[Snowman999]

If the US expansion west happened today, or in the last 100 years, it would absolutely be the same situation. We have the benefit of more time having passed. Israel probably will too in a couple hundred years.

What I’ve said here is that Israel needs to acknowledge they have taken land, and denounce that they have some right to it. Britain did not have the right to grant them the land. The US has admitted their wrongs and made some reparations to the native Americans. Any peace has to begin with that.

If you go back in time starting in the 40s, there were MANY times that Israel and the UN have tried to broker a two state solution and EVERY TIME the Arabs said no.

Jews did not take land, it was given to them by the Brits. If you can't accept it, if you think think it's wrong, that's an issue within yourself. You're wrong. It HAPPENED. You placed a hundred year mark on reparations for taking the land (the US expansion). Israel just has to protect itself for another 28 years and you'll give in that it's now their land. It is their land. Israel is recognized by everyone but the Palestinians.

Pre 2005 I was 100% behind the Palestinians. I used to argue with my Jewish co-workers that Palestinians need their own land. They need a place to raise their flag and live with their laws. In 2005, they got it. The Gaza Strip. I'm not going through it all again. It was in my first post.

This video has an argument between an arrogant Oxford asshole and Ben Shapiro regarding two state solutions, and the absolute fact that the only thing Palestinians want is "the river to the sea, Palestine will be free." Jews thrown out of Israel (or exterminated), and the entirety of the land returned to Palestine. That's the ONLY acceptable solution to Hamas and Palestinians pretty much as a whole.

Do you see that happening?

This war isn't the end. Our grand kids will be dead and Palestinians will still be fighting with Jews.

For this to truly end. Every Palestinian has to be removed from the area. Israel has to build a bigger wall around it's entire border. I don't see that happening.

I personally think Jews should demand a chunk of Germany and create a new Israel there. The Germans owe them. Some Germans might hate them. But, they won't have to worry about being bombed every second of the day.

 

[leddy]

I personally think Jews should demand a chunk of Germany and create a new Israel there. The Germans owe them. Some Germans might hate them. But, they won't have to worry about being bombed every second of the day.

That’s exactly what should have happened in 1945.

 

[Snowman999]

I’m in my late 50’s (and arthritis sucks) and I live in the U.S. I don’t disagree there is some strange thinking in the generation below me, but their circumstances are much different than mine. (Example - People like me that have owned real estate for decades have a much different life than someone today who is renting at or trying to buy at inflated prices. One of the key reasons they are pissed at the boomers).

I don’t think rational people expect life to be fair. We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

These past two generations (raised by us) are beyond coddled. They're lazy, stupid, arrogant, and live on their phones. Since they're basically all liberal, they're voting to increase their problems. That's on them. We live with our votes. Apparently regardless of how bad the economy is. How much prices rise on food. How bare the shelves are. How high gas prices rise. Abortion is more important to women than eating. I hope they fucking starve to death.

I think the original post was about lowering standards. That's not a man made road block being removed. It's just allowing kids to be stupid and proud of it.

You should never stop trying. But, you can't fix problems that don't exist. In 1964 the civil right marches was a huge advancement for blacks in the US. So many things have been implemented to give them equality. The US went way past the norm to accomplish this. A white kid will be passed over for enrollment to a college for a black kid. There are literally quotas for companies. Blacks own the sports field. Their music is #1 around the world. Blacks have their own safe spaces to get away from whites. It's still not enough. It will never be enough. All whites are racist. Were the Union soldiers that fought and died to free the slaves racist? Because the Union soldiers were white. Should they get better treatment than to be called racist? Should we raise monuments to them?

Should the descendants of union soldiers be apologized to for their descendants being called racist? Lets start righting some wrongs.

Maybe we should cut down every apple tree, because Eve ate an apple and fucked up the world. Rid the world of apples and it'll be a better place.

My personal favorite is cow farts and climate change. Many animal activists/vegetarians are also climate change warriors. Do we slaughter all cows and remove them from the planet or let them live free and continue to cause the world to end in 6 years 2 months?

 

[Snowman999]

That’s exactly what should have happened in 1945.

I completely agree. I've always thought that. I'm sure the reason it didn't happen is because no one wants Jews living near them. I don't get it. I didn't know it till I was 35 that I am a Jew. When I told my brother and sister and they were both mortified. Like it actually meant something. We grew up with a picture of Jesus in our house. We never went to church. Never had any kind of religion. Just a really nice picture of Jesus, which hung next to a great print of Joan of Arc on the stake. But, technically we're Jews. How? It turns out your mother's mother gives you your Jewishness. My grandmother Sadie was a Russian Jew kicked out of Russia cause she was a Jew. Surprisingly her husband was Syrian. Talk about oil and water.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

Jews killed jesus

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

God's not dead

 

[leddy]

These past two generations (raised by us) are beyond coddled. They're lazy, stupid, arrogant, and live on their phones. Since they're basically all liberal, they're voting to increase their problems. That's on them. We live with our votes. Apparently regardless of how bad the economy is. How much prices rise on food. How bare the shelves are. How high gas prices rise. Abortion is more important to women than eating. I hope they fucking starve to death.

That’s a bit much. My kids are in tech fields - went to top tier schools, worked their asses off, working harder than I ever did. I know lots of kids like them. I don’t buy the inflation thing being on democrats. It’s world wide.

Housing costs so much more than it used to - not because of inflation. Boomer demographics working against them, large corporations buying up all the houses to corner the rental market. They’ve got a different set of challenges than we did.

As far as race - I’ve said what I feel several times in this thread. We’ve righted most of the wrongs, but the effects of past sins are entrenched. There needs to be some external force to break down the systemic issues.

 

[leddy]

Jews did not take land, it was given to them by the Brits. If you can't accept it, if you think think it's wrong, that's an issue within yourself. You're wrong. It HAPPENED.

And seriously, it wasn’t the Brits land to give. They promised the Arabs independence in return for support against the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The Brits screwed them.

 

[LazerBeakShiek]

We’ve righted most of the wrongs, but the effects of past sins are entrenched.

my list of demands are unfulfilled.

 

[Ujn Hunter]

It will never be enough. All whites are racist. Were the Union soldiers that fought and died to free the slaves racist? Because the Union soldiers were white. Should they get better treatment than to be called racist? Should we raise monuments to them?

Should the descendants of union soldiers be apologized to for their descendants being called racist? Lets start righting some wrongs.

I'm white. I've never been called a racist... do you know why? Because I'm not a racist. If you've been called a racist... it wasn't because you were white. You say lots of racist shit... because... you're a racist. Don't get these things confused.

 

[brassplyer]

brassplyer said:
Except your prior rhetoric doesn't match up with this.

People have the opportunity to not procreate when they're in marginal circumstances - completely optional behavior. If all you can offer a child is existence in a bad part of town why are you giving birth? People have the opportunity to not engage in various behaviors that don't improve their lives - chasing drugs, dealing drugs and other criminality. Such as for example driving drunk risking violating your parole from your previous incident of criminality and then engaging in a frantic effort to avoid police apprehension.

For a long time lending institutions and realtors have been barred from discriminating based on race but you don't just want to remove roadblocks, you think it's okay for banks to give preferential deals based on race - I haven't heard you address any concern that loans based on anything but numbers run counter to sound financial principles - i.e. it's a bad idea to give loans to people who aren't good credit risks and this isn't negated by the color of someone's skin. But you think it should be policy to base loans on race.

How about promoting the idea that it's incumbent upon people to do what it takes to be creditworthy and to avoid behavior that doesn't facilitate that goal?

Not sure what “prior rhetoric” you are referring to.

You say:

We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

Your consistent rhetoric says removing roadblocks isn't enough you think there should be accommodations made - i.e. you *do* want to try to control outcomes.

I don't see how offering preferred rates and terms to someone based on race wouldn't fall afoul of anti-discrimination law.

The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination in housing because of:

• Race
• Color
• National Origin
• Religion
• Sex (including gender identity and sexual orientation)
• Familial Status
• Disability

Housing Discrimination Under the Fair Housing Act

www.hud.gov

You didn’t respond to why you asked if I worked in schools.

You don't sound like someone who's personally seen reality up close. You say you volunteered but have never been paid. You haven't said what you did specifically and at what grade level but no school district I'm familiar with would allow an unpaid volunteer to be in charge of a classroom. I also don't know the demographics of the schools at which you volunteered. I find it hard to believe you've ever overseen a wide variety of classes.

Something I've asked before and don't recall you've ever answered - are you female? Working-age men don't generally volunteer at schools.

I think any teacher or administrator who's honest will tell you they have disproportionate problems with black students - I know at one local high school they had an extra SRO deputy on duty because they were having a major problem with black and Hispanic kids fighting. Schools often have black administrators and campus advisors specifically to deal with black kids to fend off accusations of racism. It doesn't matter that there's no racism involved the problem is their behavior but they know that's the first place many of these kids are going to go rather than own up to their behavior.

Inner-city schools are a zoo and typically have abysmal results. As much as you're loathe to admit it, the primary problem is the population of students.

 

[brassplyer]

I wonder if a certain someone in this thread has ever been arrested... wouldn't that be something? Imagine if they had been... or had engaged in any sort of "completely optional behavior" and then they were calling out "other" people for such things... shame.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm really going to disappoint you - I've never even been drunk or smoked a joint - lol.

I've gotten a few tickets but so far have avoided being arrested.

I once broke up a bogus school zone revenue scam conducted by local police.

 

[brassplyer]

Well sure it is subjective. A teaching/learning environment predicated on an oppressor and victim dichotomy is not only inaccurate, but smacks of retribution and vindictiveness. It is not conducive to an objective learning experience, particularly when the victim dictates the lesson plan to the "oppressor", a fucking kid.. Where their hearts are indeed.

Changes in Florida curriculum, you keep focusing on, "slaves were benefitting from job skills"....or something like that. I don't think that is an exact quote, I'm sure of it. Providing an accurate quote would be helpful to an honest discussion on the matter. Given that, an accurate quote, what exactly do you find so objectionable? Is there no truth to the statement, or are we back to heart not in the right place?

Leddy won't be happy unless the curriculum contains terms like "white devils", "white supremacy", "equity", "micro aggressions", "systemic racism", "oppressors", "colonialism", "are owed reparations forever" etc.

 

[leddy]

You say:

We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

Your consistent rhetoric says removing roadblocks isn't enough you think there should be accommodations made - i.e. you *do* want to try to control outcomes.

Separate issues. Removing roadblocks starts with recognizing and acknowledging that past discrimination has affected the outcomes of where we are today. Something I don’t think you’re willing to do? Beyond that, I guess you are right that external forces like race based accommodations could be trying to change outcomes. As I said, that part was not a hill I’m trying to die on, but a thought on one way to address the problem. The first part, however, still stands, and begs the question of what we can/should do to address.

You don't sound like someone who's personally seen reality up close.

I grew up poor in one of the US’ largest cities. I’ve been mugged. I’ve witnessed a murder. I worked in predominantly black neighborhoods.

You say you volunteered but have never been paid. You haven't said what you did specifically and at what grade level but no school district I'm familiar with would allow an unpaid volunteer to be in charge of a classroom. I also don't know the demographics of the schools at which you volunteered. I find it hard to believe you've ever overseen a wide variety of classes.

I worked evenings and weekends. I spent my days raising my kids. I was not in charge of a classroom, but assisted teachers in the classroom and also coached sports.

Something I've asked before and don't recall you've ever answered - are you female? Working-age men don't generally volunteer at schools.

I’m male.

Inner-city schools are a zoo and typically have abysmal results. As much as you're loathe to admit it, the primary problem is the population of students.

Just like higher crime rates among blacks, I’m not disputing that. I never did. I’m saying that if you oppress a group of people for generations, it will have some consequences. The behaviors stem from a culture formed by lack of education, opportunity and forced poverty. I don’t know how many ways I can say it. If you want things to change, we need to address those factors. It seems like you don’t believe that. You seem to want to point to those behaviors to justify saying black people bad.

 

[leddy]

Leddy won't be happy unless the curriculum contains terms like "white devils", "white supremacy", "equity", "micro aggressions", "systemic racism", "oppressors", "colonialism", "are owed reparations forever" etc.

We can have a conversation, or you can talk shit. I can do that too.

 

[RFR]

There’s truth being told on both sides of this debate. (Brass player & leddy.) Yet we fight, taunt and insult each other. Exactly what our rulers want.

@leddy how do you propose to address the past to fix the now?

 

[JAPOV]

Discussion= Intelligent people come together to respectfully exchange information and affirm facts.

Argument= One or more individuals, so emotionally invested in propagating a singular ideology, that facts become irrelevant and debate is impossible.

 

[leddy]

There’s truth being told on both sides of this debate. (Brass player & leddy.) Yet we fight, taunt and insult each other. Exactly what our rulers want.

@leddy how do you propose to address the past to fix the now?

As I’ve suggested, home ownership and education, based on what I understand, are the key parts to long term solutions. Providing very low cost loans for those things would be a start. I understand that doing that race-based is problematic. I don’t have a solution to make BP happy on that. My point is, if the problem was created because of race, I don’t see an issue with the solution being so as well - but I’m open to changing that view if it can realistically achieve results.

Fixing schools at younger grades is important too. There are shortages of teachers, let alone good ones. Schools need more money for smaller class sizes. Kids need to be fed well.

I do not believe we should be cutting back on arrests or charging criminals. I’m all for holding people responsible. Not doing so leads to very bad things.