Oregon Suspends Basic Skills Graduation Requirement in the Name of Equity

[leddy]

Why not, if they currently receive 38% of abortions -- meaning that blacks are more than 3 times more likely than whites to get an abortion?

Women who seek abortions are three times as likely to be poor. Blacks are almost three times as likely as whites to be poor, so higher abortion rates among blacks should not be a surprise.

If you want to reduce abortion, reduce poverty.

 

[Snowman999]

Jews did sporadically try to settle there based on their biblical history in the region, yes. They were also fought against by the Arabs that live there.

Britain controlled the land after WW1 but gave the decision to create Israel to a UN vote. Britain abstained from that vote. Everyone was for the two state solution except for the Arabs that live in the region.

So ultimately, saying “Israel gave the Palestinians land” is backwards. Land was taken from the Arabs to form Israel. The creation of Israel should have been negotiated with the Arabs living there and the surrounding countries. Not the rest of the world saying, sure go take their land.

Hamas hiding behind civilians etc. No one is disputing that. They are terrorists. I’ve said multiple times, I’m not defending Hamas’ violence. Both sides suck.

They're still being fought. Except the Jews are much better armed now.

The UN came in when the UK had enough of the fighting from both sides. The UN was instrumental in Israel becoming a state, not about giving the land to the Jews. Israel has always been willing to settle for a two-state solution. The Palestinians aren't. From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. I think we hear that chant quite a bit. Spoiler alert: Arabs are going to lose AGAIN.

Both sides don't suck. The Palestinians 79% suck. Israel 20% sucks.

I don't know how old you are, or where you live. But there's this new wave of thinking that life has to be fair. Even shit that happened half a century ago. You seem to have that mindset. Shit happens every second of every day that isn't fair. In times of war the rules of fair are almost eliminated. Somehow the UK controlled Palestine, and said "Hey Jews you can have this area." The UK had the right to do it, and did. The Arabs in the area (just like the Arabs you wrote "They were also fought against by the Arabs that live there") didn't have a say in the matter. Is it fair? I don't know. I don't know how or why the UK had control over the land. Did the UK have the right to do it? Apparently they did. Why? Because they did it. The only people to argue were the indigenous Arabs living there. Those Arabs fought and lost. Then they fought and lost again. That kept happening till the end of days.

If you are in the US, what you should do is, find out which Native American tribe owned the land that you live on, find a surviving tribe member and give them your home, or apartment and apologize for stealing their land. There isn't much difference. Except there is.

Everything in life boils down to individuality and circumstance. A child being shot while playing in the street is completely different than a child dying while being held in front of a terrorist using them as a human shield. Two tragedies, both individual in meaning and circumstance. In this conflict BOTH will blamed on Israelis for defending themselves.

People who don't know the difference between a boy and girl, couldn't possibly understand the complexities of war. But, it doesn't stop them from being completely wrong and loud about it. I'm not talking about you personally. I'm saying in general, what I see online and in the news is mindnumbingly moronic. I think Gays for Palestine should go and fight for them. They'd definitely be used as human shields. Maybe their bodies would, because they'd be killed upon arrival. All the women protesting should go dressed in their western wear to Gaza and see what happens.

 

[JAPOV]

I think the idiocy is the point... it's a distraction.
For the muslims, this is really all about their religion. Don't forget, both Obama and Hillary lobbied for sharia law here in the US. I can't imagine anything undermining the Constitution worse than the federal government advocating for islam.

...islam doesn't think in terms of "human shields"... There's only the celebrated martyrs.

Anybody remember how islam changed France?

 

[leddy]

If you are in the US, what you should do is, find out which Native American tribe owned the land that you live on, find a surviving tribe member and give them your home, or apartment and apologize for stealing their land. There isn't much difference. Except there is.

If the US expansion west happened today, or in the last 100 years, it would absolutely be the same situation. We have the benefit of more time having passed. Israel probably will too in a couple hundred years.

What I’ve said here is that Israel needs to acknowledge they have taken land, and denounce that they have some right to it. Britain did not have the right to grant them the land. The US has admitted their wrongs and made some reparations to the native Americans. Any peace has to begin with that.

 

[leddy]

I don't know how old you are, or where you live. But there's this new wave of thinking that life has to be fair. Even shit that happened half a century ago. You seem to have that mindset.

I’m in my late 50’s (and arthritis sucks) and I live in the U.S. I don’t disagree there is some strange thinking in the generation below me, but their circumstances are much different than mine. (Example - People like me that have owned real estate for decades have a much different life than someone today who is renting at or trying to buy at inflated prices. One of the key reasons they are pissed at the boomers).

I don’t think rational people expect life to be fair. We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

I don’t think rational people expect life to be fair. We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

This. ^^^^^ Of course life isn't fair. Fairness is something we should strive for. It's relative to the idea of suffering... we will not eliminate suffering - but we should strive to minimize it. In fact, that's what we do. That's all we do. It's innate. It's our plight. To survive and minimize suffering.

 

[leddy]

Don't forget, both Obama and Hillary lobbied for sharia law here in the US.

What?

 

[RFR]

If the US expansion west happened today, or in the last 100 years, it would absolutely be the same situation. We have the benefit of more time having passed. Israel probably will too in a couple hundred years.

What I’ve said here is that Israel needs to acknowledge they have taken land, and denounce that they have some right to it. Britain did not have the right to grant them the land. The US has admitted their wrongs and made some reparations to the native Americans. Any peace has to begin with that.

I’ll just add a little bit to this perspective.

I live in an area where there’s a high Native American population compared to other regions. Ive gotten to know many of the locals including some of the elders.

Despite them assimilating, having the same rights as the rest of us, getting some federal perks, they are still pissed! Royally pissed. It lies dormant for the most part because they’re outnumbered. What can they do?
They’re now a minority in the land of their forefathers. They’ve suffered unbelievable atrocities, the stories of which get passed down from generation to generation.

Even as recently as 30 years ago the federal government broke a treaty made for a reservation of about 250 acres that was fully inhabited. The Feds decided they wanted that land back, and evicted all the inhabitants military swat team style in the middle of the night.

All the homes are gone, long since bulldozed with the only evidence left of people ever living there are some one lane roads.
It’s empty and fenced off but used for nothing. I’ve met some people that experienced that expulsion as kids.

If one didn’t know the history of the area, and it wasn’t for the occasional federally funded Indian museum, and the casino, you’d never know of the tribes that lived here.

Not only have the people been genocided but their history has been wiped out.

So yes, these people are pissed off. But what can they do?? Might makes right seems to have been the mantra in all of history.

Incredible injustices and atrocities have been committed towards these people and they have been regarded as less than human.

But this was so long ago and the way the victors get to write history, how the ‘savages’ are portrayed in Hollywood films, so many people know little to nothing. And don’t care.


Fast forward to present day. Gaza is being wiped out. Bombed to rubble. But Israel is only ‘defending itself’. That’s the story we’re told. But there’s a history there that we’re not hearing and most don’t care anyway. They’ll just happily digest the mainstream story and throw their support and tax dollars towards Israel.

But make no mistake, a genocide is occurring right now and has been for about 75 years.

But might makes right, and history is written by the victors.

 

[JAPOV]

This. ^^^^^ Of course life isn't fair. Fairness is something we should strive for. It's relative to the idea of suffering... we will not eliminate suffering - but we should strive to minimize it. In fact, that's what we do. That's all we do. It's innate. It's our plight. To survive and minimize suffering.

The quickest and most efficient way to minimize suffering is to eliminate the enemy... and the enemy agrees. Problem is, there's always an enemy. Human nature's a bitch... but it's been that way since Cain and Abel. Wishing for "everybody to just get along" is like saying, "If a frog had wings it wouldn't have to bump its butt on the ground all the time."

Don't you see? ...islam isn't just the antithesis of Christianity, it's the extremist enemy of humanity. The qur'an calls all faithful to martyr themselves in order to please allah and, ultimately, remain the only enemies left on the Earth.

I've often wondered... what will happen when there's only one shiite and one suni left?

 

[leddy]

The quickest and most efficient way to minimize suffering is to eliminate the enemy... and the enemy agrees. Problem is, there's always an enemy. Human nature's a bitch... but it's been that way since Cain and Abel. Wishing for "everybody to just get along" is like saying, "If a frog had wings it wouldn't have to bump its butt on the ground all the time."

Don't you see? ...islam isn't just the antithesis of Christianity, it's the extremist enemy of humanity. The qur'an calls all faithful to martyr themselves in order to please allah and, ultimately, remain the only enemies left on the Earth.

I've often wondered... what will happen when there's only one shiite and one suni left?

900 years ago, it was Christianity that was trying to subjugate the world through violence. It’s reasonable to assume Islam will moderate over time without needing to talk of eliminating them. Maybe the lesson is to not try to establish a non-Muslim state in Muslim land? What do I know of such things anyway…

I used to call myself a Christian. I’m still personally certain there is a higher power, but I’m afraid to call myself Christian after watching what they’ve become. I don’t walk through this world feeling like I need to protect this life at all costs. “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.”

Could’ve sworn Jesus said that.

 

[JAPOV]

900 years ago, it was Christianity that was trying to subjugate the world through violence. It’s reasonable to assume Islam will moderate over time without needing to talk of eliminating them. Maybe the lesson is to not try to establish a non-Muslim state in Muslim land? What do I know of such things anyway…

I used to call myself a Christian. I’m still personally certain there is a higher power, but I’m afraid to call myself Christian after watching what they’ve become. I don’t walk through this world feeling like I need to protect this life at all costs. “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.”

Could’ve sworn Jesus said that.

It took 500yrs for islam to become enough of a threat for Christianity to answer its call to war; And, yes, heaven and hell are just as real as God and Jesus.

Decide for yourself. You're never going to convince me with such a juvenile argument...

 

[Ujn Hunter]

"But there's this new wave of thinking that life has to be fair." This is usually said by someone that has been given what they have and are themselves in a place where they don't have to care about what "fair" is for other people... it's "easy for you to say" when you already have what you want and are perfectly happy keeping everyone else down.

 

[Ujn Hunter]

Cool... so the Muslims became more powerful than the Christians in only 500 years? That's some power right there. Maybe get rid of all the Christians and Muslims if that's all they care about... people on Earth care about Life. Not some stupid wishful thinking "After Life".

 

[leddy]

"But there's this new wave of thinking that life has to be fair." This is usually said by someone that has been given what they have and are themselves in a place where they don't have to care about what "fair" is for other people... it's "easy for you to say" when you already have what you want and are perfectly happy keeping everyone else down.

Exactly. I’ve got mine so fk everyone else.

 

[leddy]

It took 500yrs for islam to become enough of a threat for Christianity to answer its call to war; And, yes, heaven and hell are just as real as God and Jesus.

Decide for yourself. You're never going to convince me with such a juvenile argument...

Convince you of what exactly? Islam will moderate? Maybe you’re right - though we’d do well not to try to build nations in their land then. Not sure what’s juvenile about that. Your hypocrisy is much more disturbing, and one big reason your church attendance is plummeting.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Exactly. I’ve got mine so fk everyone else.

Kinda heavy, but.....

I've long understood - or believed might be a better word - that if there ever was a time for "rugged individualism" - that time is over. Human beings are animals and have gotten to where we are today through cooperative efforts. Groups of us have worked together - cooperatively (sometimes not even cooperatively - but nonetheless together in groups). As we map out the globe, consume finite resources, and, by now, seriously threaten the the very ecosystem that has allowed us to flourish for the last 10-12000 years - cooperation, solidarity, mutual respect for "the other" has never been more important. We're now at a turning point - where either a critical mass begin to understand this, get over the barriers that divide us, or their isn't going to be much of a future to look forward to. The Earth will go on with out us if it comes to that. <---- That's neither necessary, nor pre-determined. We have free will individually and therefore have freewill collectively. I'm starting to have my doubts. I've posted this before and I think it's worth posting again because it continues to encapsulate our situation, in my opinion, of course.

​

“Modern industrial civilization has developed within a certain system of convenient myths. The driving force of modern industrial civilization has been individual material gain, which is accepted as legitimate, even praiseworthy, on the grounds that private vices yield public benefits in the classic formulation.​

Now, it's long been understood very well that a society that is based on this principle will destroy itself in time. It can only persist with whatever suffering and injustice it entails as long as it's possible to pretend that the destructive forces that humans create are limited: that the world is an infinite resource, and that the world is an infinite garbage-can. At this stage of history, either one of two things is possible: either the general population will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests, guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others; or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control.​

As long as some specialized class is in a position of authority, it is going to set policy in the special interests that it serves. But the conditions of survival, let alone justice, require rational social planning in the interests of the community as a whole and, by now, that means the global community. The question is whether privileged elites should dominate mass-communication, and should use this power as they tell us they must, namely, to impose necessary illusions, manipulate and deceive the stupid majority, and remove them from the public arena. The question, in brief, is whether democracy and freedom are values to be preserved or threats to be avoided. In this possibly terminal phase of human existence, democracy and freedom are more than values to be treasured, they may well be essential to survival.”​

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Now what was going on in Oregon?

 

[brassplyer]

I don’t think rational people expect life to be fair. We can’t control outcomes, but we should strive to remove man-made roadblocks to equal opportunity. Saying “life isn’t fair” is not a license to stop trying. I see it as an excuse to be complacent.

Except your prior rhetoric doesn't match up with this.

People have the opportunity to not procreate when they're in marginal circumstances - completely optional behavior. If all you can offer a child is existence in a bad part of town why are you giving birth? People have the opportunity to not engage in various behaviors that don't improve their lives - chasing drugs, dealing drugs and other criminality. Such as for example driving drunk risking violating your parole from your previous incident of criminality and then engaging in a frantic effort to avoid police apprehension.

For a long time lending institutions and realtors have been barred from discriminating based on race but you don't just want to remove roadblocks, you think it's okay for banks to give preferential deals based on race - I haven't heard you address any concern that loans based on anything but numbers run counter to sound financial principles - i.e. it's a bad idea to give loans to people who aren't good credit risks and this isn't negated by the color of someone's skin. But you think it should be policy to base loans on race.

How about promoting the idea that it's incumbent upon people to do what it takes to be creditworthy and to avoid behavior that doesn't facilitate that goal?

 

[leddy]

Except your prior rhetoric doesn't match up with this.

People have the opportunity to not procreate when they're in marginal circumstances - completely optional behavior. If all you can offer a child is existence in a bad part of town why are you giving birth? People have the opportunity to not engage in various behaviors that don't improve their lives - chasing drugs, dealing drugs and other criminality. Such as for example driving drunk risking violating your parole from your previous incident of criminality and then engaging in a frantic effort to avoid police apprehension.

For a long time lending institutions and realtors have been barred from discriminating based on race but you don't just want to remove roadblocks, you think it's okay for banks to give preferential deals based on race - I haven't heard you address any concern that loans based on anything but numbers run counter to sound financial principles - i.e. it's a bad idea to give loans to people who aren't good credit risks and this isn't negated by the color of someone's skin. But you think it should be policy to base loans on race.

How about promoting the idea that it's incumbent upon people to do what it takes to be creditworthy and to avoid behavior that doesn't facilitate that goal?

Not sure what “prior rhetoric” you are referring to.

You didn’t respond to why you asked if I worked in schools.

We’ve talked in the past about housing. I’ve said I don’t consider myself an expert on policy making, so this is not a hill I’m ready to die on, but if the lack of homeownership cause was race-based, I don’t see why it’s a problem to make a race-based solution. I never once said anything about lowering financial qualifications. I did say lower rates could be offered. Lower rates would require lower income to qualify, so the end result could be achieved without raising the risk of the loan.

As for the behaviors you speak of, these are things that are driven by poverty and lack of education - the same issues I speak about addressing.

 

[Ujn Hunter]

I wonder if a certain someone in this thread has ever been arrested... wouldn't that be something? Imagine if they had been... or had engaged in any sort of "completely optional behavior" and then they were calling out "other" people for such things... shame.