Zoom Hn4>>>>Is There Nothing it can`t Do???

  • Thread starter Thread starter norskdrum
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Hi Kierkes
Nice reply..many thanks.

I am not using traditional drum kit set up
Just Congas & Timbales + assorted hand percussion.so the micing maybe a little different?
maybe the Hn4 could do the job alone or possibly withte extra mics?

more imformation please

all the best Steve
 
As I said, not much of an expert on the H4n, although if you're mic'ing a drum kit with it, you effectively get a stereo track and two individual tracks. There must be some way to rig that limit to work with your setup. Although, I've found that I'm insecure mic'ing esoteric percussion in any way besides having individual microphones for each thing. So if you can make it work, more power to you!

I honestly like limits, they make you really creative, and they sort of alter your brain chemistry so that you become a tweaker. Really useful trait to have when you record things. :P
 
Yes, that's what they're getting at. To do it right, it really helps to have a couple of accessories. There's a screw-in handle and mic mount that allows you to fit the H4n to any standard mic clip. Then you need the remote control card. You mount the H4n to a boom stand and set the on board stereo mics as overheads. Then you plug whatever other 2 mics you want into the XLR inputs, usually for additional kick and snare, or for djembe, congas, or whatever. Use the remote card to control the H4n. Record in 4-track mode, which is the only one where you can really use 4 mics. In 4-track mode, you are limited to 16bit/44.1kHz, but that's no big deal. And Grim- I think it doesn't do reverse recording and variable speed, but you can just dump the tracks into Cubase or Reaper or Protools or whatever, and do it there. No question, the H4n has raised the bar a little bit on what a handheld recorder can do for cheap. I think it's one of the best pieces of entry-level gear, and even if you are pretty deep into it, the little bugger finds uses. It's an adequate interface for a beginner, a fair remote recorder, and an excellent notepad for a recording artist. I use mine quite a bit.-Richie
 
Moving Forward...

Hello to you Richard,
Really was very pleased with you reply,as things had gone quiet of late...
Good to know that the Hn4 could be a very good piece of kit in my particular case...

OK! so stereo or 4 track mode?..what do we think given my recording needs? would it be really worth shelling out for two more mics .?

Bobbsy suggested below:-

Microphones? Well, I'd be in the "two microphones giving stereo coverage" brigade, especially if you're just recording in a normal domestic room without great acoustics. There are various ways you can place the mics but we can talk about that when you've bought them. A single large condenser might work too but with more room noise. Again, you've got a list of mics to look at. I'd go for two small diaphram condensers like SE1A but others might suggest just Shure SM57s. For your needs, either would work. Two mic stands on boom arms and two XLR cables of decent length should finish off that side of things.
Click to expand...

Steenamaroo suggested some well thought of and reviewed Russian mics by Oktava mk012
Click to expand...

I am more than willing to buy the above microphones if the general concensus is it would be of benefit in the overhaul scheme of things:cool:

I like using the sd micro cards I have loads of music on them and use them on my MP3 player as well as my laptop..so it seems to make sense to record on to them(or maybe direct)? i supsect this idea is maybe not a good one as we return to the initial issue of requiering an Audio Interface(am I correct)

I read all 159 pages of the Zoom manual:eek: it was a s clear as mud..but even I could see it was a super bit of kit.I may have read wrongly but I am sure on one page (incorrectly) it stated you could not use external & internal mics together:confused:IF i do use 4 mics I assume the 4 track will record directly to the micro disc(is this correct)

Placement of Mics the Hn4n centre close up to centre of set up (how does that sound) best on somekind of boom stand?

so I have two congas centre,timbales off left or right?+ Percussion-tray/stand with assorted percussion items affixed to it.(used least)

So the two Stereo add on Mics [octavia~se1a] would be again on boom type stands or similar close in to timbales and the other on right for assorted percussion...


answers or suggestions to any of the above moves things forward very much indeed..if of course I still require some kind of Audio interface then it sort of makes the Zoom Hn4n a bit expensive if you see where I am going.

I really thank you

all the best Steve:)
 
2 more mics? Hell, yes. My choices are the now discontinued AKG D770 on snare. You can find them for cheap on ebay, and unlike the SM57, every other mic isn't a cheap Chinese counterfeit. Another tip- Behringer XM8500- a dynamic that is $20 new, and is a pretty good (cheap Chinese) knockoff of an AKG D8000. It works fine on snare. Kick is more dicey, because good kick mics simply cost more. My choices- For classic rock sound, blues, etc.-AKG D112. For a more modern, clicky, "alternative" sound, Audix D-6. Mostly, I prefer the D112 because of all the *other* things it does well- toms, bass cabs, standup bass, lower keys of a live piano, and even some vocals. The D-6, I think, is really just a "kick drum" mic. Modern metal drummers like a separate mic on *everything* from wood blocks to cow bells, but most engineers will agree that using less than 4 mics to mic a drum kit is difficult at best. You can do it- if your placement is *perfect*, but the ability to adjust kick and snare levels separately makes it so much easier. If you have additional sources (conga, etc.), the need for more mics only increases. Good luck-Richie
 
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Hi Richie
Once again many thanks for a superb reply..and comprehensive answer..
just so we are clear..there will be NO accoustic drum set just Latin percussion (Congas x 2+Timbales)so no snare or bass drum,toms cymbals e.t.c.
Just wondering if that changes things a little..also remembering I do not intend to Mix/dub/laytracks e.t.c. just record to a good standard to allow me to listen to my progress of my percussion lessons..and to let my teacher know what i am doing/have done.

Otherwise I thank you for the tips on mic choice

all the best Steve
 
Even with the setup you describe, the need for multiple mics doesn't go away. If you get those 2 stereo mics in just the right place, it might not be too bad (in a good room). Being able to close-mic with dynamics can help to bring out whatever is being lost in the mix, without moving the overheads *again*. Just like with a trap set, the extra mics don't make it possible, they make it *easier*. Also, certain hand percussion, such as a big-ass Djembe, blow *tons* of low frequencies out of the sound hole, and can profit from 2 mics, one on the head, and a low-frequency dedicated mic on the bottom. Hint: Don't point the 2 mics *at* each other. When I do that. I need to reverse the phase on one of the mics, and that is one of the rare things that I think the H4n *can't* do.-Richie
 
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Hi Richie
yet again more sound advice...very much appreciated.all this imfo is helping me a lot,and my learning curve.
I suppose I was trying to avoid to many mics...just trying/hoping to keep it as simple as possible..
I think as you suggest 4 the two on the HN4n and two others will be the limit..so the positioning is where we will look at that time.more mics will,I think be overkill for what I intend..

So besides the Hn4 I need to buy the right two extra mics.so please keep all the great ideas and suggestions coming

all the best Steve
 
#Have now Purchased the ZOOOOM H4n!!!

:)Good day Moresound,TheChikenMaster's,
Captain Ego,Kierkes,Richard Monroe...:D

Just wanted to let you guys know that after a lot of thought and all your invaluable help and support..I decided to go for it and I purchased me a Zoom H4n.It as not arrived yet.Am looking forward to seeing this baby,after all the plaudits it received.

I have also being busy researching the wider aspects of my recording aspirations:confused:some of it via the Recording.Org Forum:eek:
The Concensus there appears to be overwhelmigly to stick with just the two onboard mics..suggesting that for for the kind of recording I envisage..the onboard mics will suffice?

Also being the recording.org they focused in very much on the Room itself and those nasty little (big!) accoustic balck holes the ceiling and the floor! the advice was wool rug or similar on the floor and a Cloud set up on the roof IE hangging something like muslin down and filling with rockwool or similar?
I have no doubt what so ever that the advice was 100% sound:D,but I tried to explain that I know I will have to accept compromise,as I do not really wish to hang things from the roof nor cover a brand new parket wooden floor with a wool rug.I had suggested my preference for anchoring the instruments (2 x Conga + Tibales + rack with hand percussion) on one of those Protection-Racket Drum mats..but they felt the wool rug would be better.:eek:again I am sure they are correct,

Anyway time to think about the Rug/Mat the roof as you may recall is pine planked only(not painted) the floor will have 5mm thermal accoustic underlay insulation(thats what is say`s in the blurb)

Prior to my posting on the Recording.org forum I had being looking closely at the suggested SE1s & Octavia Mk12 stereo Mics?

All things been equal? is it possible to quantify the difference between using just the onboard stereo mics as against the 4 track approach,adding the external mics?I still have a nagging gut feeling re the extra mics...so additional thoughts appreciated.

Mic Stands It as being suggested,that I look at the ATLAS & K&M offerings first,which I did and was very impressed by the Atlas range(if I can get them here??) thought may as well go for the best if I end up only using the H4n mics, but could use something from the K&M range if the additional 2 x mics are used.

If there is anything else or additional suggestions..please let me know..you have all being so helpful already,it means a lot to me

all the best Steve:)



 
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