ultrasound
New member
I use it on DId bass and sounds great.
Your Opinion On Amp Sims
- Thread starter 240v
- Start date
I had two main obstacles to compose/record anything in the past:
1. Live in a small apartment and could never crank up my amp without bothering the wife/neighbours
2. I live in India and you just don't get good quality equipment here. If you somehow manage to find something decent, you need to pay atleast a 20-30% premium on gear
Amp sims were a lifesaver for me. I play bass primarily and am doing some stuff on the guitar as well. Have Guitar rig and amplitube. Once you figure out your way around the settings, you can get some pretty nice tones from a DIed guitar. With the current DSP technology, I think amp sims are 90% there in terms of audio quality.
Right now, I'm really digging the Ampeg bass plugins and Orange guitar sims on Amplitube. They're so good ! That said, you can never beat the sound of a quality solid state
1. Live in a small apartment and could never crank up my amp without bothering the wife/neighbours
2. I live in India and you just don't get good quality equipment here. If you somehow manage to find something decent, you need to pay atleast a 20-30% premium on gear
Amp sims were a lifesaver for me. I play bass primarily and am doing some stuff on the guitar as well. Have Guitar rig and amplitube. Once you figure out your way around the settings, you can get some pretty nice tones from a DIed guitar. With the current DSP technology, I think amp sims are 90% there in terms of audio quality.
Right now, I'm really digging the Ampeg bass plugins and Orange guitar sims on Amplitube. They're so good ! That said, you can never beat the sound of a quality solid state
J
jokerone
Guest
XploZiveToyz
All American Un-American
Guitar Rig 5 by Native Instruments and Amplitube by IK Multimedia are both good ones in the right hands.
I've only played with a few myself. Guitar Rig and Peavey's Revalver seemed pretty good to me. Amplitube is probably the most popular but I wasn't too impressed with it.
J
jokerone
Guest
I've got Guitar Rig. (hoping GR 6 will be out this fall).
I've found the tone to be really hit and miss. Some are really good, other are just noise, but then again, I'm not really into a heavy metal sound.
I've worked on and pretty much nailed an early Mark Knopfler tone preset for GR5 (just wish I could play like that).
Got some other sounds out of it that are pleasing to my ear. Got a lot of sounds that sound like a banshee in a bear trap.
Tripper John
New member
I have Amplitube 3 and Scuffham Amps. I enjoy both and can get very good tones out of them. As for being able to tell the difference, I expect it is only other musicians who may be able to hear a difference from the real thing. Actual people, like fans listening to their stereo or an audience at a gig won't care unless it completely sounds like ass. If I was to recommend a sim, it would be Scuffham Amps. Small independent developer who worked at Marshall and who doesn't try to overwhelm with choices, but gets the basics very right.... at a good price. I bought it a couple of years ago now, and there have been free upgrades that included a reverb, delay and modulation. Very customer-friendly and well supported.
I can't use an amp here, either, so my Peavey Classic 30 sits in the basement. I don't really miss it.
I can't use an amp here, either, so my Peavey Classic 30 sits in the basement. I don't really miss it.
It seems most sim packages do one or two amp models pretty well, and the rest are useless. And really, who uses that many sounds and styles? I think most people have their favorite kind of clean sound and they stick with that, and their favorite kind of crunch or overdrive sound and they stick with that.
J
jokerone
Guest
I think your right. I have taken the same philosophy on setting up Cubase via a template. A band doesn't have 400+ drum kits, 50 guitars amps, etc. they drag around with them. So I've found the NI Guitar Rig presets, Kontakt, effects, Superior Drummer, Battery, Ampeg SVX, and other VSTs I like, spent a week tuning and tweaking, and then created a template. This way I don't waste hours setting crap up each time I want to start composing.
If I want something different, I just tweak it again. I also sent everything up so the Instrument/MIDI tracks can be treated just like an audio track and I can apply effects to them.
BTW, that Ampeg SVX and my physical Ampeg Portaflex sound so similar that if you are interesting in spending the $99 on the SVX, I would say its a good investment.
I don't think sims sound as good as an amp. Well, a good sim with a good user can sound better than a bad amp and a shitty player, but all things being equal, the real thing murders the sim. A Marshall Plexi sim doesn't even come close to a real Plexi running into a real cab mic'd with real mics. Sims usually lack the depth and punch and dimension that you get from air and soundwaves leaving a speaker and slamming a microphone capsule. 1s and 0s don't cut it. The low end and midrange is considerably better with a real amp. The difference is quite noticeable when comparing the real thing recorded well to a sim. And last but not least, for me, I like to do everything real. It's just a hang up of mine. It's gotta be real. Real equipment, real mics, really played by real people. All real stuff. It's better. I don't give a fuck what anyone says. Real amps and real drums are better than fake.
The only advantages sims have over amps IMO are cost, loudness, and ease of use. Anyone can download cracked sim software, use it in the middle of the night, and get decent tracks immediately without knowing anything. Yay. Real amps require skill and commitment. It's like paying a racing video game vs driving an actual race car.
DM60
Well-known member
Is it safe to say, that really an amp sim is to only to get a sound that imitates a certain set up?
I know this is dumb statement, but I am getting to where I use no sim on my guitar tracks. I add my gain, EQ effects (maybe) and go from there. Based on that, unless you are chasing a certain sound, there really is no reason to sim a DI'd guitar track.
I am sure I am missing something, so go easy here as I ask the question as a question to learn.
I know this is dumb statement, but I am getting to where I use no sim on my guitar tracks. I add my gain, EQ effects (maybe) and go from there. Based on that, unless you are chasing a certain sound, there really is no reason to sim a DI'd guitar track.
I am sure I am missing something, so go easy here as I ask the question as a question to learn.
Thanks. The biggest reason I haven't tried a sim is because I have the same hangup as you. I want to record a sound that really happened. Probably irrational, but a track that never existed except for electricity travelling along a wire somewhere just doesn't do it for me. I want to know that all the sounds I recorded existed in the real world - if for only a moment.
One thing I'd suggest for sim users is to use cab impulses. Where sims really lack IMO is not the amp sim itself, but the speaker emulation. That's where a big chunk of the magic happens. Cab impulses are similar to reverb impulses, but they're from a speaker cab. If you're not familiar with convolution impulse files, google it. They're usually better than the fake cabs and speaker emulators found in most softwares.
Free Guitar Cabinet Impulse Responses!
Free Guitar Cabinet Impulse Responses!
Supercreep
Lizard People
I figure I am going to get a better ac30 sound from an amp sim than from my supersonic 100% of the time, because my supersonic can't pretend to be anything except a fender.
An amp sim is a huge time saver and that in turn makes it a significant productivity tool. For that reason alone they should get more respect (and more credit) than they do.
On the other hand, purists that can afford to be purists should do so because bias confirmation is a self-reinforcing act, and feeling good about what you do turns out to be pretty important. If I have the amp, I want to use it, right? Maybe?
The performance is always more important than the decision to use an amp or a sim. And since you're getting a direct signal in the latter case, you can always reamp the damned thing if you are losing sleep over it. It may well be best practice to record everything direct and reamp later anyway, to preserve the maximum flexibility later when the song is no longer conceptual and imagination has to be reconciled with reality.
I no longer feel conflicted this way about tambourines and shakers and cowbells. I have some nice ones, and can play them. It is tedious and unforgiving.
Or, I can use superior drummer to fly in some guy who is 50 times better than me at the instrument, recorded in a better studio than mine and with nicer gear than I have. Oh, and I can pick between five or six completely different loops and have complete control over tempo.
Why would I ever want to spend another hour recording a tambourine?
An amp sim is a huge time saver and that in turn makes it a significant productivity tool. For that reason alone they should get more respect (and more credit) than they do.
On the other hand, purists that can afford to be purists should do so because bias confirmation is a self-reinforcing act, and feeling good about what you do turns out to be pretty important. If I have the amp, I want to use it, right? Maybe?
The performance is always more important than the decision to use an amp or a sim. And since you're getting a direct signal in the latter case, you can always reamp the damned thing if you are losing sleep over it. It may well be best practice to record everything direct and reamp later anyway, to preserve the maximum flexibility later when the song is no longer conceptual and imagination has to be reconciled with reality.
I no longer feel conflicted this way about tambourines and shakers and cowbells. I have some nice ones, and can play them. It is tedious and unforgiving.
Or, I can use superior drummer to fly in some guy who is 50 times better than me at the instrument, recorded in a better studio than mine and with nicer gear than I have. Oh, and I can pick between five or six completely different loops and have complete control over tempo.
Why would I ever want to spend another hour recording a tambourine?
Last edited:
Supercreep
Lizard People
I guess multitracking is out of the question, then. After all, it is an entirely artificial ensemble, right?
I am mostly kidding. But at the end of the day, the point is to create a sound that is pleasing to your ears, right? If you can do that - with whatever tool is at your disposal - then you are doing it properly.
The least important aspect of a tone is its pedigree.
c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
I figure I am going to get a better ac30 sound from an amp sim than from my supersonic 100% of the time, because my supersonic can't pretend to be anything except a fender.
An amp sim is a huge time saver and that in turn makes it a significant productivity tool. For that reason alone they should get more respect (and more credit) than they do.
On the other hand, purists that can afford to be purists should do so because bias confirmation is a self-reinforcing act, and feeling good about what you do turns out to be pretty important. If I have the amp, I want to use it, right? Maybe?
The performance is always more important than the decision to use an amp or a sim. And since you're getting a direct signal in the latter case, you can always reamp the damned thing if you are losing sleep over it. It may well be best practice to record everything direct and reamp later anyway, to preserve the maximum flexibility later when the song is no longer conceptual and imagination has to be reconciled with reality.
I no longer feel conflicted this way about tambourines and shakers and cowbells. I have some nice ones, and can play them. It is tedious and unforgiving.
Or, I can use superior drummer to fly in some guy who is 50 times better than me at the instrument, recorded in a better studio than mine and with nicer gear than I have. Oh, and I can pick between five or six completely different loops and have complete control over tempo.
Why would I ever want to spend another hour recording a tambourine?
Analog devices have inherent noise, especially those designed for use with guitars. It's part of the appeal of them for a lot of folks. Saying it is a self-confirming bias kinda ignores an important aspect of "analog" sound. The other thing about analog devices is they don't always do what you expect them to do. Not so with most digital stuff. If you dial up the same preset tomorrow or a month from now it's going to do the same thing. My analog stuff can provide weird artifacts that aren't always predictable. Sometimes it's a good thing and sometimes it isn't.
As an example, I have a couple Moog products with Panasonic BBD chips. No digital anything can do what they do. Those chips have a sound that is unique to them. A digital delay or chorus is going to sound "cleaner" and not be able to reproduce the tone of those chips.
Something else I noticed with guitar rig is that the envelope filter seemed to have kindofa high gate---- that is the effect would cut off before the note trailed out all the way. Analog envelope filters do that too, but not as abruptly.
YMMV.
Last edited:
Remember I didn't say I wasn't irrational.
(And I guess I'm not afraid to use a triple negative from time to time (TripleN?))I don't have a hangup on multitracking (I love it and I do it all the time). As long as the tracks came out of an amp.
I guess I have two purposes. One is, like you say, create a sound that's pleasing to my ears. But also to produce the sound in a way that's pleasing to my inner self. Again, I'm not always rational.
DM60
Well-known member
That is actually rational. Most of us make music for our inner self.