You get what you pay for.
- Thread starter Massimo
- Start date
Yep, the 201 is my favorite, an MD441 is also nice, for jazz an AKG C451.
Some people (like George Massenburg) dig the MD431 for snare.
Some people (like George Massenburg) dig the MD431 for snare.
What can I say about the M201
It's a mic that looks like a SDC, but it is a classic dynamic that sounds very tight and crisp. It's much more rejective than a SM57 and it has a nicer off axis response.
If you look at the freq response graph that comes with the mic you'll see an almost flat line.
This is a great mic, not very versatile, but a great snare mic, very nice on horns, I've used it with succes on timpani and you can use it as spot mic on hi hat and even for OH miking.
The MD441 is another very great dynamic, much has been said about it on these forums.
It's a mic that looks like a SDC, but it is a classic dynamic that sounds very tight and crisp. It's much more rejective than a SM57 and it has a nicer off axis response.
If you look at the freq response graph that comes with the mic you'll see an almost flat line.
This is a great mic, not very versatile, but a great snare mic, very nice on horns, I've used it with succes on timpani and you can use it as spot mic on hi hat and even for OH miking.
The MD441 is another very great dynamic, much has been said about it on these forums.
M201 are for sale every day at FullCompass for $173. I think their eBay auction is probably a few dollars less, but nobody ever wins one... hard to say for sure.
I wanted an M201, after hearing RE's. But... due to price and zilch for used stock on eBay, I opted elsewhere. I went with a couple of ATM23HE instead.
I wanted an M201, after hearing RE's. But... due to price and zilch for used stock on eBay, I opted elsewhere. I went with a couple of ATM23HE instead.
Scriabin
New member
tubedude said:On the 57 in a kick thing.... it will work GREAT, and I mean fantastic in a kick... if you use drumagog to replace the sound.
I just cant like a 57. It loses every test I've tried and I cant figure out why people rave about it still.
Sure, its fine on a snare... if you dont mind the most ass-sounding leakage of all time, but there is always a mic around that will do a better job IMO.
I dont like it much on guitars when compared to other either. Its fine I guess until you compare them, then its like "toss"
Just goes to show you, one mans junk is another mans treasure. By the way whats your preamp situation look like?
alanhyatt said:Any mic can outperform any mic given the proper conditions. Its too bad we can't all have one mic and buy the conditions!!!!
Alan, that's a very bold statement and to stay close to your home, a B1 will never outperform a big Neumann, Microtech Gefell, or Brauner, not under any condition.
I still think a B1 is the best mic for it's price tho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhyatt
Any mic can outperform any mic given the proper conditions. Its too bad we can't all have one mic and buy the conditions!!!!
Originally Posted by alanhyatt
Any mic can outperform any mic given the proper conditions. Its too bad we can't all have one mic and buy the conditions!!!!
If anyone want's to trade their Brauner VM1A for a B1, please pick me.Han said:Alan, that's a very bold statement and to stay close to your home, a B1 will never outperform a big Neumann, Microtech Gefell, or Brauner, not under any condition.
I still think a B1 is the best mic for it's price tho.
freshmattyp
New member
Maybe outperform isn't the correct word choice. It's all about the context of the song. There will be circumstances where the B1 will will be the right choice, and the Brauner will not. Case in point: I was doing vocal overdubs at a very nice facility here in Kansas City. The centerpiece mic is their vintage C12. For one song, it didn't sound right. Out comes my C1, and presto. The song works. In that context, the C1 was clearly better than the C12. The C12 might sound better on everything else 99% of the time, but in that instance, it wasn't the correct choice.
ausrock
Well-known member
How many times have we seen it said that an experienced engineer can make a good recording using a four track and a cheap mic, whereas give a novice the best gear and in all probability they will stuff up big time. Somehow I think this may have been what Alan was alluding to when he said "conditions".........
ausrock said:
Any novice can put a SM57 in front of a speaker cabinet, run it through a board with the EQ bypassed and record it to whatever he likes.
That same novice can also discover that when he puts a Beyer M88 in the same spot, he will have a sound that's more true to the source, thus 'better'.
Another problem is recording acoustic instruments, stereo recordings. That's where one needs experience and skill.
Alan's statement doesn't fly, if you put a great mic on a guitar, saxophone, cello, violin, trumpet or whatever, it will always sound better than an inexpensive and less great mic.
I'm sure when I put my M149 in a kick, it will sound great. The kick will kill the capsule, so I won't do that, but it will sound great.
I've put a C1000 in a kick and it sounded pretty good, but it got killed in the first song.
ausrock
Well-known member
QUOTE..........."if you put a great mic on a guitar, saxophone, cello, violin, trumpet or whatever, it will always sound better "
No it won't!!!
Given the right "conditions" (quality of instrument, player ability, room acoustics, engineer experience) it should, BUT there's no guarantee that it "will always sound better".
No it won't!!!
Given the right "conditions" (quality of instrument, player ability, room acoustics, engineer experience) it should, BUT there's no guarantee that it "will always sound better".
chessparov
New member
Han, with all due respect (and I respect you a LOT), this kind of thinking of objective best/better/good/bad etc. isn't suited for popular music recording.
Sure, if you're gonna record Pavarotti, break out the DPA's/Schoeps'.
Yet in pop music, the first rule is that there are no rules-as surely you already know. Although I sold my B1 (very good vocal mic IMHO) due to
the poor acoustics of my "studio" at home, a microphone like that would be great for many singers like myself who have to be heard through a busy mix
ala using a AKG 414. The first time I knew it would shine in this regard without being harsh or sibilant. (mellower than B/ULS on top)
True stories are legion on where the 'lil SM57 smoked the mighty Neumann on numerous well known hit recordings. So at this point, all these kinds of discussions mainly reflect out individual preferences and that's that.
Sometimes you just have to give these "cheap mics' some time to learn how to extract the best out of them. The Shure 546 and the Beyer Soundstar MKII have turned out to be two of the best sounding microphones for my voice, along with some (of the most expensive in the world) like the
Telefunken USA versions of the U47 and '251, and the Manley Reference Gold.
My other faves are the RCA 77, Studio Projects T3, SM7, EV 666, and RE20.
Any one of these could be used on a commercial release track on me,
and for many other vocalists. I'd just want a good pro AE like you, Alan, or
Harvey at the helm to capture the take and help keep the recording process as relaxed as possible.
When you boil it all down, microphones are like golf clubs, get a bunch of them to avoid having a stroke!
Chris
Sure, if you're gonna record Pavarotti, break out the DPA's/Schoeps'.
Yet in pop music, the first rule is that there are no rules-as surely you already know. Although I sold my B1 (very good vocal mic IMHO) due to
the poor acoustics of my "studio" at home, a microphone like that would be great for many singers like myself who have to be heard through a busy mix
ala using a AKG 414. The first time I knew it would shine in this regard without being harsh or sibilant. (mellower than B/ULS on top)
True stories are legion on where the 'lil SM57 smoked the mighty Neumann on numerous well known hit recordings. So at this point, all these kinds of discussions mainly reflect out individual preferences and that's that.
Sometimes you just have to give these "cheap mics' some time to learn how to extract the best out of them. The Shure 546 and the Beyer Soundstar MKII have turned out to be two of the best sounding microphones for my voice, along with some (of the most expensive in the world) like the
Telefunken USA versions of the U47 and '251, and the Manley Reference Gold.
My other faves are the RCA 77, Studio Projects T3, SM7, EV 666, and RE20.
Any one of these could be used on a commercial release track on me,
and for many other vocalists. I'd just want a good pro AE like you, Alan, or
Harvey at the helm to capture the take and help keep the recording process as relaxed as possible.
When you boil it all down, microphones are like golf clubs, get a bunch of them to avoid having a stroke!
Chris
Yo, I got the message! Actually, a while ago I was recording a vocalist who made his choice out of the M149, V69, V77 and B1.
He took the B1, but that's a matter of personal taste. What I'm talking about is sound quality in a way of being true to the source.
If I put a microphone next to the Neumann and record an acoustic source and compare the two sounds, the Neumann is sounding more true to the source than the other mic. I've never heard another mic sound better so far and if I say better I mean it sounds more like the sound of the instrument in the room.
It may be that a particular mic makes the sound of a source sound even 'better' in a way that you like the mic's sound more than the source.
Some vocalists don't like a hi end LDC because they are used to the enormous bump of the lows, due to the proximity of an SM58 for example.
Great discussion!
He took the B1, but that's a matter of personal taste. What I'm talking about is sound quality in a way of being true to the source.
If I put a microphone next to the Neumann and record an acoustic source and compare the two sounds, the Neumann is sounding more true to the source than the other mic. I've never heard another mic sound better so far and if I say better I mean it sounds more like the sound of the instrument in the room.
It may be that a particular mic makes the sound of a source sound even 'better' in a way that you like the mic's sound more than the source.
Some vocalists don't like a hi end LDC because they are used to the enormous bump of the lows, due to the proximity of an SM58 for example.
Great discussion!
ausrock
Well-known member
Han,
A couple of years ago I ran a "blind comparison" on some mics on an acoustic, amongst them was a U87, a 414, C1 plus a couple of other AKGs. Anyone that heard the tracks agreed that two mics stood out above the others, the tracks they picked were the U87 and the C1 and there was a concesus of opinion that the C1 was giving a truer representation of that particular guitar.
If I were to repeat the exercise now I may get a different result, who knows.
A couple of years ago I ran a "blind comparison" on some mics on an acoustic, amongst them was a U87, a 414, C1 plus a couple of other AKGs. Anyone that heard the tracks agreed that two mics stood out above the others, the tracks they picked were the U87 and the C1 and there was a concesus of opinion that the C1 was giving a truer representation of that particular guitar.
If I were to repeat the exercise now I may get a different result, who knows.