You get what you pay for.

Harvey Gerst said:
And just to make it more confusing, Al Schmitt owns a pair of MXL V67G's and a pair of 603's.
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Yep, but he also owns five Neumann M149's and he probably has access to almost any classic mic like U47, M49, M50, Elam 251 and all the classic ribbons.

This whole discussion is like the never ending discussion about monitors, most are very expensive, but don't sound very good.

A scilled Photographer can make award winning photo's with a $20 camera.

So can a scilled engineer like you Harvey, make a good sounding recording with a $35 microphone.

Many microphones these days are more look alike's than sound alike's.

Still a less than $100 mic can sound amazingly good.

A statement like 'ýou get what you pay for', doesn't fly IMHO.
 
chessparov said:
Harvey, for general vocal use in a studio how impressed are you by the T3 purely on sonics, putting aside $$ for the moment?

There was a group of us at NAMM taking turns singing/listening to each other at NAMM and it sounded excellent to all of us IMHO.
It's my clear favorite out of the SP line.

Been told that the SM57 works very well on me, still would like a U47 or 251. Preferred the Telefunken USA 251 over their U47 by a bit, and both of them far above their repro of the C12.
Love the Manley Reference too BTW.
Not much of a fan of the U87ai so far.

A "secret" of the dynamics/ribbons (& some condensers) is that you can have the whole group record a live studio recording together easier
compared to needing a larger room for a condenser over bleed concerns.

Elvis used a EV RE15 or RE16 for most of his RCA recordings, which all had the musicians playing directly there as he sang. That kind of interaction
can often be heard in a record as an enhancement vs. overdubbing.

Chris

P.S. IIRC Roger Nichols thinks quite highly of the KSM32 FWIW.
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I was VERY impressed by the T3 and I agree that it's probably the best sounding SP of all the models I've heard.
 
Phosphene said:
Good luck with your Shure, Massimo, i'm sure you'll put it to good use. Who knows, you may never ever get rid of it. My first mic was an AKG C3000, because I did no research and just asked a MARS salesman what would work for vocals and guitar cab. They were on sale for like $175, so I don't think it was a bad investment at all. I made it work for 2 years, but then I realized there were more mics out there.....and then the sickness began....
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Yes, I got infected here. I haven't even got my Shure and already I'm thinking of getting another mic. All I can say is you have to be strong. Hang in there.
 
You know its funny, but I've found the same thing with the 57. It can't be beat for my voice. You can imagine my frustration when I have to switch out my u195 because the 57 sounds better. I have a great appreciation for the humble shure. It has blown away my soundelux and josephson mics time and time again on a variety of sources. Hell, the other day it blew both of those away when I was frustrated by the sound I was getting out of my piano. Tossed the 57 inside the lid, add some strong 1176 compression and bam...the tone I was looking for. Too many people on here slam the 57 but I reason that is for two reasons:
1. The quality of their front end. The 57 will either suck or shine depending on the preamp being used. Through my mp-2nv it amazing, through a soundcraft board...well, it was a different story.
2. The ability of the engineer. A 57 in the hands of a competent engineer can be a dangerous weapon. Ive heard a handful of 57s used for an entire song. It was amazing.

Thanks for listening.
 
Massimo said:
Yes, I got infected here. I haven't even got my Shure and already I'm thinking of getting another mic. All I can say is you have to be strong. Hang in there.
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I hear you, its easy to get gear lust when you cruise the forums all day. Heres a word of advice and take it for whats it worth. Get off the computer and start recording. The truth is you dont need 30 different mics to get the job done. It has been in my experience that I only really need 4 mics to record an album well.
1. A LDC ie. soundelux u195
2. A pair of SDC ie. Josephson c42
3. A dynamic shure 57.

*optional a ribbon like a royer 121

With these mics I can record anything well and alot of things exceptionally. Having more options is always nice, but Ive found the more options I have the less work I get done.

oh and by the way...all of these mics are at or under a grand.
 
I did sound last night when my daughter's band played a local coffee house.

We started out with a pair of SM58 on the stands provided by the opening band. I don't care if they spit in their own mics... Amplified by Ranes with Burr-Brown INA163, they sounded like, well, SM58 playing through JBL mains.

When my daughter's band came up, I returned the SM58 pair and replaced them with my ancient pair of Radio Shack #33-1080 SDC electrets. Even with foam wind shields installed, the difference in clarity is breath taking.

I've been using these old dawgs for drum over heads. Now, I think they will be the go-to choice for my daughter's band at live venues. I paid almost nothing for them back in the 80s. Audio Magazine has a review of them in the July 1983 issue, so I assume that is around time time I bought them.
 
Scriabin said:
I hear you, its easy to get gear lust when you cruise the forums all day. Heres a word of advice and take it for whats it worth. Get off the computer and start recording. The truth is you dont need 30 different mics to get the job done. It has been in my experience that I only really need 4 mics to record an album well.
1. A LDC ie. soundelux u195
2. A pair of SDC ie. Josephson c42
3. A dynamic shure 57.

*optional a ribbon like a royer 121

With these mics I can record anything well and alot of things exceptionally. Having more options is always nice, but Ive found the more options I have the less work I get done.

oh and by the way...all of these mics are at or under a grand.
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OK, one line blasts out like thunder. "Get off the computer and start recording" how God damn true.

Thank you very much.
 
The problem is the price/performance ratio is not a straight line. With the advent of the inexpensive eastern mics the "knee" point of this curve has definitely become lower.

As an example for me that "knee point" is the Rode NT1000

So IMHO beyond a certain point you do NOT get what you pay for.

Tony
 
Scriabin... Humm, well I guess you could use your 57 on kick in a pinch, or any of your other mics also if you don't get to close to the kick... but, I'd rather have a few mics to choose from for any given instrument... I.E. at least 4 or 5 kick mics to pick from. I also believe you get what you pay for... and I hate most cheap Chinese budget mics because they crap out way more often than top name brand mics.

Harvey... I bet you've had some of your good mics for years and have never had any problems with most of them... on the other hand, how many cheap budgets mics have you had crap out in say the last 5 years? If you had to give a ratio for the last 5 years, what would you say it would be.... maybe 4 budget mics crapping out as appose to say maybe 0 good mics crapping out? And remember we're only looking at a 5 year term... watch and see what happens to that ratio over... lets say a 25 year term. ;)
 
Well, the first MXL V69ME had a bad tube and the new one's been working fine. The first SP B1 I got from Alan didn't work right; the next one did.

Ok, I've had both my Fairchild F-22's repaired, by Stephen Paul first, then Dan Kennedy. My Sony C377 is sitiing at Dan Kennedy's waiting to be fixed, and Tony at Stephen Paul's has my Altec M20. My Coles 4038 bought new, had to be re-ribboned.

Are Neumanns built to a high standard? Yes, and that's partly reflected in the price. Are these cheaper mics as reliable? Probably not, and that's reflected in the price. Will they last the life of the user, or fall apart after a few years? No, I don't think so. I think they'll last a long time.
 
I thought you've had at least two MXL V69ME crap out within the last 5 years... and didn't a V67 take a dump to?

Anyway, the point is... IMO, we really do get what we pay for, and in some ways you agree.
 
DJL said:
I though you've had at least two MXL V69ME crap out within the last 5 years... and didn't a V67 take a dump too?
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Nope, I only own one V69ME. The first one I had went bad, and it was replaced. I've never had one problem with any of the MXL V67's.

Right now, I still have two bad Sennheiser 421's and a bad Beyer M201 that hafta go in. And a bad SM7 and 3 Sennheiser MD504s.
 
Oh ok... my mistake. I guessing you've had those other mics for a pretty long time. I've never had an MD421 crap out... one of the mounts cracked, but that's it... and my MD421's have been through hell and back and then some.
 
DJL said:
Scriabin... Humm, well I guess you could use your 57 on kick in a pinch, or any of your other mics also if you don't get to close to the kick... but, I'd rather have a few mics to choose from for any given instrument... I.E. at least 4 or 5 kick mics to pick from.QUOTE]

Read my posts again. I didn't say give me a 57 and ill record you a hit record. However, a 57 in the hands of a competent engineer can be very dangerous. Hell, I like options too which is why i have a couple of shures, soundeluxs' and josephsons.
For your information a u195 on a kick is beautiful thing;) Nothing beats that U47fet sound on a kick in my opinion.
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Scriabin said:
DJL said:
Scriabin... Humm, well I guess you could use your 57 on kick in a pinch, or any of your other mics also if you don't get to close to the kick... but, I'd rather have a few mics to choose from for any given instrument... I.E. at least 4 or 5 kick mics to pick from.QUOTE]

Read my posts again. I didn't say give me a 57 and ill record you a hit record. However, a 57 in the hands of a competent engineer can be very dangerous. Hell, I like options too which is why i have a couple of shures, soundeluxs' and josephsons.
For your information a u195 on a kick is beautiful thing;) Nothing beats that U47fet sound on a kick in my opinion.
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I love the Shure SM57 and many records have been made with them... my favorite mic on kick is the MD421. Anyway, it looks we are more in agreement than not. Thanks for the reply.
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Scriabin said:
For your information a u195 on a kick is beautiful thing Nothing beats that U47fet sound on a kick in my opinion.
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I just got a U195, brand spankie new, and I haven't tried it on kick...what's the position you like best with it on kick? Do you throw the pad on and the fat switch on? Can it take high SPLs? I forgot what my sheet said. BTW, Iwas recording my mom playing the flute with my 195 and she blew into it and was like "Is it on?" Damn I woulda freaked out if t wasn't mother's day. I guess the mic is ok. ....................what do you think
 
I keep saying that one should not use a condenser for kick.
Here are some thoughts from Klaus Heyne, who is an expert.

"I maintain to this day that something happens to a diaphragm when you assault it repeatedly, and over extended periods with a loud sound source of narrow frequency bandwidth".

"The damage is so bad and obvious, that I have Fet47s from several L.A. studios on rotation, where at least once a year capsules are exchanged for new ones, because the engineers feel, and I concur, they are shot. But they love the sound of the fet 47 on kick so much that they are willing to sacrifice lots of money for capsules".

You can find the thread here: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/196/1221/?SQ=e053dfe1f5d6c9461a18288ea912b0e2
 
Well, I own mostly pretty nice mics, and I can tell you straight up that the SP C4's at $150 each with multiple capsules and shockmounts are the equivalent of many mics that cost 4 times that much. When you buy something like that for $150, you really do get what you pay for, that is, if you intend to be buying a professional, clear and big sounding mic with your $150.
I havent even tried the omnis out yet, and they are worth 4 times the price.
 
On the 57 in a kick thing.... it will work GREAT, and I mean fantastic in a kick... if you use drumagog to replace the sound. :eek:

I just cant like a 57. It loses every test I've tried and I cant figure out why people rave about it still.
Sure, its fine on a snare... if you dont mind the most ass-sounding leakage of all time, but there is always a mic around that will do a better job IMO.
I dont like it much on guitars when compared to other either. Its fine I guess until you compare them, then its like "toss"
 
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