Yet another tedious basic question

[emerald]

Hi, I'm new to the board. I've read lots of Q&As, followed lots of links, and tried to decipher acronyms until my brain in floating in a sea of numbers and letters. I don't have a technical bone in my body, so I'm hoping someone here can give it to me straight, in plain English.

I write music. It's all in my head, much of it is on paper, but none of it is recorded. I would like to have it critiqued, but people seem to have this thing about wanting to actually hear the song before they give their opinions. Fine, I won't get huffy, I'll get with the program and face down my fear of the unknown. But I think I need some help.

Here's what I want to do: make basic, decent working demos. They don't have to be studio quality, but they do need to sound better than a tape recorder sitting on top of my piano. I'd like to add drums (probably from loops, since my two years of standing behind a snare in junior high band don't quite cut it), bass, guitar, piano, and/or strings tracks(played on my old but serviceable basic midi keyboard, or possibly also from samples/loops, if those even exist), and a vocal track. And from what little I've seen of current software, I will probably find myself messing around with all sorts of other stuff, just for kicks. So the only thing that would need to be recorded by mic is the vocal...everything else goes through midi or is internal. Unless I decide I can't stand the midi keyboard and choose to record my actual acoustic piano, which would be a nightmare, since it's upstairs and all the computer equipment is downstairs.

Here's what I have: a pentium III 500 mhz pc running windows xp with a soundblaster Live card (I think...yes, I had to ask my husband because I am a technical moron). When I do notation in Finale (for piano/vocal or choral scores) it plays back with a distinctly midi piano sound, and is depressingly lacking in expression. Is this the fault of Finale's limited abilities, or is it how Soundblaster cards sound all the time? If it's the card, I need a new one. Ugh.

Here's what I need, I think: a decent microphone, software, and possibly a preamp. And maybe a new sound card. Will that do it for me? Do I need the preamp for something as basic as this? Will Cakewalk Home Studio or Acid do what I need? Is either one better than the other for my particular needs? Will they have better synth sounds than the ones on my aged keyboard, or do I need to upgrade that too? It's about 12 years old, so a veritable dinosaur.

I know it's basic, and y'all are hardcore sound engineers, but be gentle. Not everyone was born with an input jack for a navel. Thanks in advance!

 

[AlChuck]

When I do notation in Finale (for piano/vocal or choral scores) it plays back with a distinctly midi piano sound, and is depressingly lacking in expression. Is this the fault of Finale's limited abilities, or is it how Soundblaster cards sound all the time?

Two points to make:

First, the default SB card piano sound is not very good. But you can replace the default sound with a good piano Sound Font, which is one of the things that makes the SB Live a good card for the purposes you have.

Second, if you use Finale to write the piece by putting the notes on the staff, then output to the soundcard from this, it's bound to sound sterile and stiff regardless of how magnificent of a piano sound you use. It's as if you had a piano player who could only play exactly and preciesly what was written, like a machine. Real human players interpret as they play because they have learned how to use the written music as their guide at the same time as learning to play naturally with phrasing and feeling within the guidelines imposed by the notation. The computer can't do that, at least not without help. See if there are some things in Finale that will allow it to "interpret" the music a little. Similar things in other programs are called "swing," "groove quantizing," or "humanizing."

I think it's also possible to play the piece itno Final, let it record the MIDI performance with all it wonderful expressive quirks, and then Finale figure out how to represent it like a transcribing human would do with a recording, without destroying the original performance's timing and velocities.

Here's what I need, I think: a decent microphone, software, and possibly a preamp. And maybe a new sound card. Will that do it for me? Do I need the preamp for something as basic as this?

Yes, a preamp is important. The SoundBlaster has a MIC In with a preamp, but it's terrible and only meant for those cheap plastic mics that come with the cards or that you can by at Rite Aid for $8.99.

I would go ahead and work with the SB Live for now and worry about a better-quality card later.

Will Cakewalk Home Studio or Acid do what I need? Is either one better than the other for my particular needs?

Well, ACID is meant for arranging loops and adjusting for the slight differences in tempo between different files. It can record, but it's whole reason for being is loops. Home Studio is a general recording package. If you get the newer version, it works with loops too, but it's main pirpose is to record MIDI and audio tracks and allow you to manipulate them.

Will they have better synth sounds than the ones on my aged keyboard, or do I need to upgrade that too?

They don't have "synth sounds" themselves -- you have to provide the sounds by recording or importing audio, and/or providing a sound module (or modules) as the destination for the MIDI messages you record. The SB card is one such module, as are software synths, and your old keyboard, I suspect. A PIII/500 MHz machine will probably not run soft synths very sucessfully along with a recording program, but the SB Live loaded up with good Sound Fonts make a pretty decent sound module (especially considering the price). There are good Sound Fonts to be had for free (check out http://www.hammersound.net ) and good ones that you can buy (check out http://www.sonicimplants.com ).

 

[emerald]

Thank you!

This is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you so much! You rock! (And I suspect that's true in every sense). =)

 

[NYMorningstar]

Hey Emerald, welcome to the BBS. There's no simple answer other than take it a step at a time. You have to know your budget and plan ahead. What you buy now may become obsolete if you choose to upgrade in the future so you need to be careful. Keep in mind your sound is only as good as the weakest link in your sound chain.

You're going to find that the PIII just isn't going to work out to well with multiple track and channel recordings. It's too slow and when you add effects to your tracks it will cause latency and drive you nuts. A faster puter is in order for you. You can can a P4 without going broke and make sure you get at least 512mgs of ram.

The soundblaster card is not the best for recording. It was designed mostly for game playing. It does have a fairly decent sound though and I wouldn't say it was to blame for the cruddy midi sound.
This card should be sufficient for you until you get some experience. To record with the SB Live you will be limited to recording one track at a time. When you want to record multiple tracks at the same time thats when you should start looking at changing your soundcard to one with multiple inputs.

You are going to need a preamp for recording with a mic and a decent mic or two. You could get a dedicated mic preamp or you could use preamps on a mixer with multiple channels. Again, think about what you want in the future. If you get a condensor mic make sure your mic, preamp or mixer has phantom power. What are you using for speakers? So many choices and limited funds, you get the idea. You don't want to be getting equipment you are going to grow out of in 6 months.

Same with software, look ahead. the programs you mentioned are ok and you might also take a look at Stenburg's Cubase if your into the midi.

Whatever you do don't lose sight of why you are doing this and have lots of fun along the way.

 

[emerald]

Thanks!

I appreciate your response. You make a lot of good points. I'm not sure what I want to do in the future, because this is new to me. Not the music, but the recording of it. I think I'll go with the basics (using the card I have, etc) and see what I need to get, one thing at a time. My husband informs me he was already aware my computer was too slow, and was planning on upgrading it to AMD, 1 ghz. Will that be as good as a P4, or at least good enough? I do need more RAM though, I don't have nearly enough, so I'm glad you mentioned that. Hubby is a computer guru, so he can take care of the computer end, but when I ask him about mixers and preamps, he just gives me a blank stare, lol.

I am trying to do this on the cheap as much as possible, but without *sounding* cheap. My three kids are always pestering me for things like food and clothing, lol. I really do appreciate your help and your kind response. I've been trying to decide if I need a mixer; I think I'll start shopping around and see if it's workable to do the preamp/mixer combo.

As for your last thought: I agree entirely. I do this because I love it. It's all for the music. I'm excited to get started, and see what I can do.