Yet Another MicPre thread

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Decay

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I'm looking to buy a cheap micpre and have thus far managed to narrow it down to three choices

M-AUDIO DMP3
Studio Projects VTB-1
Electro Harmonix 12AY7

I'll mostly be recording vocals for now, but will probably move on to drums, acoustic and electric guitar (amp micing) as well.

The two mics at my disposal are, at the time of being a Røde NT1-A and an SM57.

I'm doing metal/hard rock/industrial type of stuff most of the time. As far as vocals go, I like Jim Morrison, Marilyn Manson and Rammsteins Reise Reise album.

Which pre would believe to be best suited for my needs?

Btw, I'll be recording to an M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496 soundcard if that makes any difference.
 
I own all 3.

If I had to use just one it would be the DMP-3 mainly because it's two channels and also it's the most neutral sounding, so it would be a practical choice. The EH pre probably has the most likeable sound.

Having said that if variation of sound is more important then the VTB-1 could suit better. Without the toob thingy engaged at all it's pretty clean but you can add a bit of something different with the tube blend dial. Not exactly tube dreaminess (it's a cheap starved plate design after all) but it doesn't sound at all bad compared to some of the cheap toob pres out there.

You wouldn't go far wrong with any of them imo.
 
Thanks, good to get a reply from someone with actual experience using the pres. I've pretty much ruled out the VTB-1 by now.

About the EHX 12AY7, would you say it's sound is more suited to blues, roots and that type of music, or would it fit the styles of music i mentioned in my initial post?

Also, in which areas do the two remaining pres excel?
 
Decay said:
Thanks, good to get a reply from someone with actual experience using the pres. I've pretty much ruled out the VTB-1 by now.

About the EHX 12AY7, would you say it's sound is more suited to blues, roots and that type of music, or would it fit the styles of music i mentioned in my initial post?

Also, in which areas do the two remaining pres excel?
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The DMP3, imo, really shows it's stuff on acoustic guitars. That's the main thing I use mine for. It has quick transient response, is quiet, has plenty of gain, and a nice full sound. It's good on vocals, but not great -- pretty plain vanilla. Although, I don't have the EHX pre, I've heard some nice recordings made with it.

I wouldn't entirely rule out the VTB1. I think it's about the most versatile pre in its pricerange, toob or no toob. Tons of gain, plus bells and whistles that you'd normally only find on much more expensive models (like the impedance switch). I can't say that it's my "go to" pre for any particular thing (except for my newly acquired NADY ribbon mic), but it works well on lots of stuff, which I think is key when outfitting a studio on a budget.
 
Decay said:
M-AUDIO DMP3
Studio Projects VTB-1
Electro Harmonix 12AY7

I'll mostly be recording vocals for now, but will probably move on to drums, acoustic and electric guitar (amp micing) as well.

The two mics at my disposal are, at the time of being a Røde NT1-A and an SM57.
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I own all three of these preamps as well. Here are my thoughts on them:

DMP3:

Although the DMP3 is respectable in its price range, I don't like it as much as most of the other folks here do. It's a little too brittle and sterile sounding for my taste. For a cheap and sonically neutral dual-channel mic preamp, I prefer the Symetrix SX302. However, if your primary interest is recording vocals for now, I probably wouldn't recommend either of them to you. They won't flatter your vocals as much as your other two choices. They will both be reasonable choices for drums, however.

EHX 12AY7:

This one is probably the best sounding of the bunch and would be the most flattering on your vocals, acoustic guitar, and crunchy guitar. It's also the most tempremental and least versatile. It will overwhelm you with hum if you don't use balanced cabling, and it behaves strangely at around 8:00 to 9:00 on the input gain dial. I think that the great sound makes it worth the hassle, but it may frustrate you from time to time. I personally don't like it on heavily distorted guitar amps.

SP VTB-1:

I've always liked this preamp. It has a decent clean sound and the tube blend does add a bit of warmth to the signal. By making adjustments on the input gain, output gain, and tube blend, you can get a pretty wide variety of sounds out of it. It's also a decent direct box. It's not usually my first choice on anything, but it generally sounds respectable if not good on everything.

I hope that this helps.

- Jerfo
 
I don't think I can add much to what Scrubs and Jerfo have said. I do like the dmp-3 and like Scrubs I use it a lot on acoustic guitar (often with a stereo pair of mics).

Jerfo's post is not the first time I've heard the Symetrix pres mentioned (I believe there's a good older model called the SX202 as well) so I reckon they're probably worth checking out. One went on ebay UK for £40 ($72) yesterday (and we generally pay a bit more for stuff used and new over here).

The EH pre I like on most vocals and it's nice on acoustic guitar too for a different flavour, I just get a more natural sound with the DMP-3 (in fairness this could be because I'm stereo micing with the DMP-3).

I would find it dificult to say one pre or the other would suit a particular type of music, it's more a question of picking a pre which suits a specific source. And to be perfectly honest I don't have a lot of experience in recording lots of different types of music so i'm really not qualified to give an opinion here.

If I had to pick one like I said I'd go with the DMP-3 because of it's lack of colour and the fact that it's two channels. I'd be torn between the other two because the EH pre probably has the nicest sound overall but it's a bit of a one trick pony. Like Jerfo said you can vary the sound of the VTB-1 quite a bit.

Good luck in your quest for a pre anyway, like I said in the price range I don't think you could go too far wrong with any 3 of them.
 
The balanced cabling bit regarding the EHX pre might pose a problem. You see, the M-AUDIO 2496 soundcard has unbalanced RCA ins and outs. Will this create hum? If so, are there any (cheap, hopefully) ways around?
 
Decay said:
The balanced cabling bit regarding the EHX pre might pose a problem. You see, the M-AUDIO 2496 soundcard has unbalanced RCA ins and outs. Will this create hum? If so, are there any (cheap, hopefully) ways around?
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BBS poster Ben Logan has a 2496 card and uses the EH pre with it. A response from EH regarding the hum problem and what Ben does about it is in this post:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=1558949&postcount=47
 
For metal/rock-type music, the Joemeek ThreeQ is worth considering adding to your thoughts, as the compressor is really good at creating the aggressive sounds you want from your guitars and bass/snare in your kinda music. And if you want a really trashy, pumpy industrial sound, it's right up your alley. The pre is as good if not better than most of the pres in the price bracket, and is transparent enough to make really good captures even if you choose not to use the EQ and comp on it. The EQ and comp provide the 'colouration' (and can be subtle too - I don't do much metal!).

Other than that ... DMP-3 is a very good price for two decent pres/DI boxes. Depends on what you're after.
 
Thanks guys. looks like I'll have to look into getting a transformer if I want to use the EHX pre, then.

Noisedude, about the joemeek pre. what is the difference between an optical and a "regular" compressor? You reckon it would be good at creating agressive sounds?

Would you say the pre remains pretty uncolored as long as the compressor/EQ is not engaged? I've heard the meek sound is very love/hate based, which might pose a risk as I have no opportunity of trying before buying.
 
Decay,

The Joemeek line is all brand new, having been bought from Ted Fletcher by PMI (who used to distribute some of their stuff). The new stuff is designed by Allan Bradford in the UK (a very nice and faultlessly polite bloke, as it happens). So the brand name is the same, but the designs are all different.

With that in mind - yes, the preamp is pretty see-through, using Burr Brown chips and pretty similar to the ones in the Toft channel strips. There's no love/hate thing there, it's just a very capable preamp ... nothing particularly fancy or whatever.

As a dedicated software user, I've said a number of times that Joemeeks are the only compressors under about $1000 that I'd bother buying, because whilst plug-in compressors are very functional, the Meeks make a sound I've not heard elsewhere. I'm not too hot on the science of a photo-optical compressor, but my recording partner and I bought a couple of ThreeQs to try out (not really expecting them to be used that often except for on 'special' tracks, and have ended up using them on maybe two-thirds of everything we record. What you find with an effective hardware EQ and comp is that you can use much more subtle settings and get better results ... as opposed to getting a graphic EQ on your PC and bumping one band by +/-20dB just to try and make your mix a bit more musical!

That's my feeling, anyway. Make sure you're aware that the ThreeQ doesn't have an instrument input, so your bass/electrics will need DI-ing first (Behringer make a surprisingly good one for about $30).

Hope that helps! :)
 
I was going to use an EMU sound card as compressor, EQ, reverb etc. But reading this post, I feel like I should invest in a Joe Meek compressor. :-)
 
Hmmm ... that's tough. I haven't used the E-Mu cards myself but the DSP/plugin stuff on them seems to be pretty popular. And like I say, plugin comps do a very good job (unlike reverbs, which take hours of fiddling and can still sound a million times worse than an old Midiverb). But the Meek comps have a different sound, and one that I find to be particularly cool for aggressive music (although mine get used on about two-thirds of all the stuff I do ... just far more sparingly on those tender acoustic songs!!!!).

I'd say you should get your converters and preamp right - and use any spare money in your budget to get FX and comps. In which case, the ThreeQ makes a good buy for a channel strip, all things taken into account.
 
I have a question... see i was also looking at buying one of those preamps... basically i cant decide between a DMP3 and a 12AY7... my current preamp is a mic200 and i badly need to upgrade... I will be recording rap vocals... what would be the best choice?
 
Overwhelming user feedback would suggest a DMP3. I would say that you can't go wrong with it because it's neutral enough that it basically can't offend anyone!! :)
 
noisedude said:
Overwhelming user feedback would suggest a DMP3. I would say that you can't go wrong with it because it's neutral enough that it basically can't offend anyone!! :)
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True, but my usual choice for vocals is the 12AY7 in fact it's the main thing I use it for and vox is the one thing I don't ever seem to use my DMP-3 for.

I don't record rap though. :confused:

This buying gear thing can be really confusing can't it? :D
 
Totally, because you never get to use your ears before buying in most shops!
 
The guy would be genuinely entertaining if he wasn't so racist!! :rolleyes:
 
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