Yamaha MG Inserts

W

White_Rabbit

New member
Ok, just so you know, I *have* read a few posts already where people have talked about the using the inserts on the MG already, but I want exact clarification on the following issue before I go and spent up. Oh, and I read the manual too, but it wasn't the most helpful piece of literature I've ever gazed upon. Anways...

Basically, I want to use the inserts on a Yamaha MG12/4 as "direct outs" to go to my Delta1010LT. To do this, I was going to use an 8 core RCA to 1/4" snake, but I get the feeling that the TS plugs on the snake will be unsuitable for "tapping" the inserts (that thing where you put it in half way). Should I be looking for a snake that has TRS plugs, or do TS plugs work for this purpose? Also, it doesn't matter if doing things with the TS snake will "steal" the signal from the main path, as I won't be using it to monitor or anything, just to record. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

PS: This is the snake I'm looking at, for reference purposes: http://www.musicianswarehouse.com.au/default.aspx?Pg=21&ProductCode=CPR802
 
Last edited:
You do need to use TS plugs, and, as you said, only push them in as far as the first "click", not all the way. They will then take the signal immediately after the pre but before anything else.
 
Yes I do dawg, I have a project band (We're sort of a mix between pub rock and psychedelic) and we're hoping to record a bit of a demo and send it off to a local radio station that does an unsigned talent competition for a bit of a laugh. Why do you ask?

Also, thank you very much Garry, that's exactly what I wanted to know!
 
Why do you plug them in only halfway? I have a Yamaha MG10/2, and if I plug my TS cables in all the way, it works fine.

However, the Yamaha manual says that the insert jacks are phase reversed. Does the halfway reflect the phase reversal? I can understand why it might, but also not at the same time.

Can this please be clarified?
 
Alexbt said:
Why do you plug them in only halfway? I have a Yamaha MG10/2, and if I plug my TS cables in all the way, it works fine.

However, the Yamaha manual says that the insert jacks are phase reversed. Does the halfway reflect the phase reversal? I can understand why it might, but also not at the same time.

Can this please be clarified?
Click to expand...

Good question, I was hoping somebody better qualified than me would answer it. Clearly a TS plug inserted fully would give the same output, I think that without a TRS jack and an inserted box sending a return signal you would lose the rest of the channel.

Actually this post is just a bump in the hope that somebody who knows what they are talking about will answer Alexbt's Q.
 
Well, thanks for the bump--I really would like the answer to this question. I am concerned about the reversed phase.

[Thinks out loud]

I know TRS is hot cold and ground. I don't know offhand which is which, except that the hot and cold are opposite phase, and when put together, they cancel out any noise that is not supposed to be in the signal. With a TS cable, you're only getting 2/3s of what you'd get in a TS signal. I just don't know which 2/3s that is, and where it applies.
 
Alexbt said:
I am concerned about the reversed phase.
Click to expand...
Don't be.

It's nothing you need to worry about, especially in this instance. Yamaha makes that point in the manual to cover themselves in case you were to take direct signals out of the MG 10/2 and into another mixer, then combine them with some other signals that were coming into the second mixer straight from a source.

Taking uniformly in-phase or out-phase direct outs into a sound card shouldn't matter at all as long as the polarity matches among all of them.
 
I'm running that same setup, MG 12/4 into a 1010LT. I'm using that same Hosa 1/4" TS to RCA snake and it's working fine doing the first click thing. Make sure you add some labels to the 1010LT ins/outs. It's really easy to get them mixed up when you're in a hurry. Also, it helps to tape all the RCA connections together. I about pulled my hair out one time thinking that one of my monitors had died.
 
I haven't experimented in a while, and I amnot at home right now:

if you insert to the first click, you get the direct out AND the signal still goes to the mains.

If you insert the cable all the way, you get the direct out AND it INTERRUPTS the signal return, and you get no signal to the main





or the other way around
 
The way an insert point works is as a means of adding an effect or processor into the path of the mixer channel, usually post gain, pre eq. You'd use a Y cable that goes 1/4" TRS to 2 x 1/4" TS, or 2 x RCA, or whatever. I've seen consoles that use TRS jacks either wired so that:

tip = send
ring = return
sleeve = ground

or

tip = return
ring = send
sleeve = ground

The hot/cold/ground (actually hot/neutral/shield) scenario applies to balanced cable connections, like a microphone with 3 conductors. Insert points are not balanced, it's simply an effect send & return in one jack instead of two.

If you're using a TS cable with an insert point, the tip of the plug should come into contact with whatever part of the jack handles "send". If ring = send, it's the first click. If tip = send, it's all the way.



sl
 
snow lizard said:
The way an insert point works is as a means of adding an effect or processor into the path of the mixer channel, usually post gain, pre eq. You'd use a Y cable that goes 1/4" TRS to 2 x 1/4" TS, or 2 x RCA, or whatever. I've seen consoles that use TRS jacks either wired so that:

tip = send
ring = return
sleeve = ground

or

tip = return
ring = send
sleeve = ground

The hot/cold/ground (actually hot/neutral/shield) scenario applies to balanced cable connections, like a microphone with 3 conductors. Insert points are not balanced, it's simply an effect send & return in one jack instead of two.

If you're using a TS cable with an insert point, the tip of the plug should come into contact with whatever part of the jack handles "send". If ring = send, it's the first click. If tip = send, it's all the way.



sl
Click to expand...

snow lizard is correct. the insert is used for sending/returning the signal to an outboard processor. using only the send part of the trs jack for sending a direct signal out is just another use for the insert. I don't think it would be good for the mixer to fully insert a ts plug into a trs insert jack. I wonder if this could cause any damage to the mixer.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
I don't think it would be good for the mixer to fully insert a ts plug into a trs insert jack. I wonder if this could cause any damage to the mixer.
Click to expand...


I'm not 100% sure, but I doubt it. The return path will short to ground this way, so the signal won't be present in the mixer after the insert point. Beyond that, I'm not sure that it can actually damage anything.

Anyone who's decent with a soldering iron would be able to wire a special plug for this. a TRS plug with the ring left open would work with a tip = send type insert point, and leave the signal also present in the mixer if it needed to be done.


sl
 
All I can tell you is that I put my TS cables in all the way and it worked fine. Haven't tried first click yet.
 
Tested it out. It's quite strange!

The inserts as outputs works each step of the way.

Inserting with no click works.
First click works.
All the way in works.

I'm quite stumped!
 
Alexbt said:
Tested it out. It's quite strange!

The inserts as outputs works each step of the way.

Inserting with no click works.
First click works.
All the way in works.

I'm quite stumped!
Click to expand...


Hmmm...

I had a look at the manual for this board - it says the tip is send, so the only thing I can think is that the ring and tip contacters of the jack will touch each other if the plug is only inserted to the first click. This will complete the circuit to send the signal out, probably without defeating the rest of the channel. (send & return connected)

Again, if the plug is TS and inserted all the way, return should contact ground instead, and you shouldn't have any signal in the mains of the board. (not a big deal if you don't need a signal there)

It's strange that the phase is inverted, but most software can invert the phase of a wave file. Whichever setting has more bass should be the correct one, although it does get a bit more complicated. (is that African phase, or European phase?)


sl
 
Hosa makes an adapter that goes from 1/4 trs (with the tip and ring jumped) to a 1/4 female. This is supposedly for just this purpose.

I have been using 8 of them off of the inserts of our eurojunk board to do live recording.

hosa adapters
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top