xlr vs. 1/4; effects for da horn playa

[fatlips]

Ok, I feel kinda dumb for asking but here goes. I am a horn player and I want to use effects live. most effects pedals are made for guitars so does it hinder the mic signal to go from an xlr to 1/4 to be able plug into the pedals. If it does hinder the signal how can I boost it back to normal. Use a preamp of some kind. Equipment I wish to use are the boss loop station, q-tron envelope filter(wah). I would end up using a rack effects unit for the delays and reverb. Advice? Anyone? Anyone?

 

[bennychico11]

Ok, I feel kinda dumb for asking but here goes. I am a horn player and I want to use effects live. most effects pedals are made for guitars so does it hinder the mic signal to go from an xlr to 1/4 to be able plug into the pedals. If it does hinder the signal how can I boost it back to normal. Use a preamp of some kind. Equipment I wish to use are the boss loop station, q-tron envelope filter(wah). I would end up using a rack effects unit for the delays and reverb. Advice? Anyone? Anyone?

you wouldn't use the pedal right after the mic....you'd need a preamp first to boost the signal of the microphone to line level.
that being said, I think most guitar effect pedals have only High impedence inputs (a guitarist should verify that for me since I don't really know for sure). While it should still work (i plugged a keyboard headphone output into an effect pedal once ), it won't be the best quality sound.
I think probably the ideal way would be:
Mic-->Pre-->Reverse DI box (reamp box)-->guitar effects unit-->Hi Z input (or DI Box again-->line input)

kinda confusing...probably one of the reasons why people prefer to use dedicated effects processors with the Auxilary sends or inserts.
It can be a cool idea though. Imagine playing live and then hitting a chorus pedal when you needed (I'm a horn player too...and I see where you're going with this )

 

[tourettes5139]

I think most guitar effect pedals have only High impedence inputs (a guitarist should verify that for me since I don't really know for sure).

Yep. Some rackmout ones may have line level inputs (for adding effects after the actual recording and stuff), but every pedal that I have seen has high-impedence inputs.

I think probably the ideal way would be:
Mic-->Pre-->Reverse DI box (reamp box)-->guitar effects unit-->Hi Z input (or DI Box again-->line input)

That's how I would do it. As bennychico said you could plug it straight into the pedal, but it would sound better to use a reamping box and a direct box at the other end.

Cool idea, especially for live stuff.

 

[fatlips]

Thanks gents for the input. Nice to see someone waiving Big Red out there too . Even though things are strange in the land of Husker football lately.

anyway, I think I catch the drift on both of your advice. first question:
with the Mic-->Pre-->Reverse DI box (reamp box)-->guitar effects unit-->Hi Z input (or DI Box again-->line input) option I understand that the signal is still as strong, maybe diminished a tad after all those signal changes etc? This setup would be best if there was front of house sound guy right?
second question: Now if we were running sound from the stage for smaller venues etc. I was thinking of getting a hold of a mixer say the 1202vlz which has 2 aux ins/outs so I could utilize a couple of effects there and still throw a coupla stomp boxes on the ground via your solution. Make sense still? Now I was talking to a guy and he said something about chaining the effect units together somehow. How would that work?
And what do you mean "getting the mic signal UP to line level"? What is the diff?

 

[tourettes5139]

I think that you could use this setup whether you are running sound or if you have someone else doing it.

When you say chaining the effects together, do you mean running two pedals together? Or did you mean chaining the pedals to the effects that you were going to patch into the aux sends on the mixer? I don't quite get what you are asking.....

Line level is higher and stronger than mic level; if you try to plug a mic level signal into a line level input, it won't "match up" as well, and the sound quality suffers, and vice versa.

 

[bennychico11]

Thanks gents for the input. Nice to see someone waiving Big Red out there too . Even though things are strange in the land of Husker football lately.

anyway, I think I catch the drift on both of your advice. first question:
with the Mic-->Pre-->Reverse DI box (reamp box)-->guitar effects unit-->Hi Z input (or DI Box again-->line input) option I understand that the signal is still as strong, maybe diminished a tad after all those signal changes etc? This setup would be best if there was front of house sound guy right?
second question: Now if we were running sound from the stage for smaller venues etc. I was thinking of getting a hold of a mixer say the 1202vlz which has 2 aux ins/outs so I could utilize a couple of effects there and still throw a coupla stomp boxes on the ground via your solution. Make sense still? Now I was talking to a guy and he said something about chaining the effect units together somehow. How would that work?
And what do you mean "getting the mic signal UP to line level"? What is the diff?

you CAN chain stuff together, but you won't have as much control if you do. you would just take the line out of one effect unit into the line in of the other. It would just be hard to control levels/mix
Same thing with a guitar effects pedal i believe. just plug one into the other. the sound should just pass through the pedals unaffected until you stomp down on it.

like tourette said, a microphone level is too weak...which is why you always plug it into a preamp. this brings it up to line level. Then I suggested a reverse DI box because a microphone signal is a balanced, lo impedence signal....so this will unbalance it and make it hi impedence (like a guitar is)...then off to the stomp boxes. then after that you treat it like a guitar in plugging it BACK into a normal DI box and then into your mixer....(or skip the DI if you have a HI-Z input on the mixer).

This is probably easiest if you don't have a FOH engineer. That way you control when you stomp on the pedals and everything. If you have someone who can control the effects units and the amount that is mixed with your signal, just plug the mic into a mixer and run it to some aux sends. It's the easiest, cleanest way....but of course harder for YOU to control since you'll be playing.



glad to hear someone else on this board is a Husker fan. I'm headed up to Lawrence this weekend to see if I can catch the game. Go Big Red!

 

[fatlips]

ok guys. I think I get it. I think I new some of it but needed some affirmation. thanks for the High/Low impedance explanations. I will keep this thread so I can tell ya how it goes after I get set up. maybe i'll send you a sample.
looks like my budget needs increased after looking at DI box prices. Yeeesh.
to be continued......

 

[Farview]

Another idea would be to get a pedal board for vocalists. I've seen them (a while ago) but I can remember who makes them. It is just like those floor based multi processors for guitar, but it has a mic input and output. It is for vocalists, but it should do everything .

 

[tourettes5139]

I think that Digitech makes one. Its something like the VP200 or something like that. Don't quote me on that model number though.

 

[fatlips]

still tarded. so....what again do I need to look for in a DI box? I need two of them would you have model recommendation so I can read up on the specs so I know what the heck I am looking for. I see em out there for anywhere from 30 buck on ebay to hundreds.
Thanks again again again.