Would you rather pay for cd duplication? Or build your own cd duplicator?

[Outlaws]

Im still not sold on this cadre of people you're referring to that actually inspect the resolution of underground album covers.

You don't have to inspect them to see total crap.

It would be an issue if the cover was unreadable or blurred but obviously nobody would release a product that would manifest those qualities on purpose.

Ya well money talks. You think your are saving a bundle and your delusions will blur your vision for you. You think it looks good until its all done and you have a chance to sit back and relax only to realize they look like a cheap ass print job.

No im not just reading what i want to read...have you read into what im reading??

Sorry I don't listen to this politically motivated bs anymore. No more activism from me.

Your speaking from a level I dont operate on you want to call that "professional" thats cool with me, I never said i was professional but last time i checked im not selling cds to professional listeners im marketing to people that like Independant music and they have a better grip on reality than men suits seem to manifest.

I think the link above covers that also.


Demos are one thing. Print and burn all you want at home. But to sell for "profit", then the product better be good because no matter how "underground" your music is, or how deeply "involved" you are in the "scene", you are in business like it or not.


And if all of this was over you having one or 2 songs for a CD and thats it, then you are wasting your time. Just burn it and give it out. But don't charge people for one song. One song CDs are not cost efficient by nature. But cost efficientcy probably shouldn't even be on your list since you should be doing this outta love....or did I miss read what underground you are in?

 

[Outlaws]

im not selling cds to professional listeners im marketing to people that like Independant music

Thats why you don't need to master your recordings then isn't it?

they have a better grip on reality than men suits seem to manifest

The fact that you think that shows you have little grasp on what reality really is yourself.

 

[Outlaws]

HipHop might be a way of life, but it isn't life.

 

[illacov]

Ok and this had anything to do with???

hip hop is a way of life but it isnt life

would strike me as more of a personal attack on something or somebody than an observation.

Isnt rock and roll life??

Hip hop is a way of life ... but if you had a grasp of english a way of life is life.

As for the comments on men in suits...am I wrong?? Why arent you working for them if im wrong?

Im still wondering how somebody who's into digital media has such a wack ass logo for this webpage considering its your choice what to put up as a image.

So for somebody to say its crap by looking at it what would you call crap??

That link you put up isnt what the album covers I designed look like nor is it that xeroxed look either.

I would be more open minded if you had said go to this link and see an example of what is good or what is acceptable and this was done with than these people suck politically motivated etc.

I dont know that band i started a thread about cd duplication but now i realize i asked the wrong question.

Replication is what you guys are referring to that i should go with.

That involves glass masters and pressing plants.

Im asking about duplication...which is burning cdrs

Im talking about selling your album which is on cdr which has happened already ... thankfully i never met anybody from this post board on the streets.

Apparently you guys have a thing against people using unorthodox methods of making money in the music field.

Anyways
any other peoples takes on this??

Peace
Illa

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

IMO... burned CD-Rs scream "DEMO" - as in "lower expectations for both audio and musical quality"....

Pressed CDs with proper lithography scream "professional" - as in "raised expectations because there is a clear substantial investment in the project".....

Whether it's true or not,visual image often speaks for the project. A CD-R simply doesn not reflect a professional image, a pressed CD does.

You may not like it, and the representations may indeed be false (ie, a CD-R may have killer audio and killer musicality), but the impression exists nonetheless and you have to deal with it.

 

[illacov]

Ok Bear

Wow im suprised you'd be here on Christmas...ill give you some dap on this one

Would you NOT buy a burned CD if you heard it before you bought it and liked it???

AND it played in your car stereo??

Just a question

We're talking an 8 dollar cd

Im sure the price screams unprofessional too..but thats all a matter of opinion now isnt it?

Just a question

Peace
Illa

 

[Outlaws]

Lmao. My logo kicks so much more ass than you could ever understand.


Here you go..........

www.berntson.us/design

That is a bit more modern.

 

[illacov]

Thanks for the laugh

But obviously you've invested alot of time and money into your craft so i wont laugh too hard

your logo still looks like a frog in a joy helmet

Peace
Illa

 

[Outlaws]

Oh you dumb ass. Thats not a logo. Thats an AVATAR.

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Re: Ok Bear

Would you NOT buy a burned CD if you heard it before you bought it and liked it???

AND it played in your car stereo??

Just a question

We're talking an 8 dollar cd

You missed my point.... I wouldn't pay for it if it were $2 and Al Schmitt himself engineered it if you hand me a CD-R with hand-made artwork and no lithography.

Quite simply because it looks like a "handjob" it doesn't give the impression of a serious project with some investment behind it.

 

[ChristopherM]

Re: Re: Ok Bear

You missed my point.... I wouldn't pay for it if it were $2 and Al Schmitt himself engineered it if you hand me a CD-R with hand-made artwork and no lithography.

Quite simply because it looks like a "handjob" it doesn't give the impression of a serious project with some investment behind it.

[Beavis and Butthead voice on]
He said "handjob." Huh....huhuh...
[/voice off]

Gotta agree. I've considered having even my demos for the bars and coffeehouses done at Diskfactory just so that they look more pro than sticky labels or bubblejet printing.

 

[illacov]

umm wow

Thats being a little overzealous isnt it??


I understand if this were a bootlegging issue but this is the actual artist's work...suppose they didnt have another 1000 dollars after studio time and mastering to go get a lithograph and pressing on their disc??

I basically take this to mean you have absolutely no tolerance for any artist unless they invest oodles of money into a demo or independent release.

I guess thats understandable...
me on the other hand i am what i am...love me hate me disagree with my opinions thats your right..

however i just hope that this ideaology doesnt cut you out of some cash that u could have earned but didnt because you felt things wouldnt be "professional" enough.

Wow discmasters for a coffee house??

Um sometimes doesnt professional in a non professional environment imply slumming to some people?

If you spent all this money on your album why dont you have it in stores?? Whos gonna buy something from someone who hasnt spent the time and payola to get their album advertised everywhere on television..

Lets say fuck the talent or the songs on the album all i care about is packaging.

Spoken like a true jaguar owner.
Im still waiting for "different" people with different opinions to take a stab at this ...im not talking about people that agree with me. I really liked the statistical info that i got early...yes i had my spin on it but it was more interesting than people ego tripping over a friggin album cover. Wow you guys "were" record execs at one point werent you?

Btw...a while back i found a Canadian company that would charge 35 cents for a 4 page cd insert full color..this made my expenses 65 cents a cd

still not bad

however i havent satisfied the glass master people if do that..

Peace
Illa

 

[ChristopherM]

A bulk pack of 100 CDR discs only cost $79 at DiscFaktory, so yes, lithographed discs for the coffeehouse demos. They are very plain, but they look better than sticky labels, cleaner and more "pro." This especially looks good for the times I'm in areas with heavy competition for gigs like San Francisco! You want to appear "worth the money." I figure a buck a CD (or less) for a promo isn't a huge expense.

As far as "commercially available" CDs, I wouldn't feel so great paying anything for a burned CDR. I might do it for a friend or if I really liked the band, but I wouldn't take a chance on something I hadn't heard if it were a burned CDR.

Christopher

 

[illacov]

Ok let me understand this

you would pay someone to BURN cdrs professionally so these arent printed cdrs but they have labels on them...like most bootlegs on the street corner but they have no jackets...

ok

i would be looking at this in a different light if these were printed off a glass master but you basically are saying you would use cdrs but just for promotional purposes...which is a given black hole unless they're for radio play.

Oh so lets name a big city too

NEW YORK CITY
HOT 97

NO thats not a coffee house

but thanks for the free info of course nobody as uniformed with me would get a musicians friend catalog in the mail cuz i just build my own equipment too...

wow

it shocks me to know that you and bear are two different people because it feels like im talking to the same person when it comes to you two.
Anyways

Diskfactory 100 BURNT cdrs for 79 bucks

ok

They have PROFESSIONAL BURNERS TOO?? Whats a professional cdr recorder?? Are those discs guaranteed to play in every recorder?? The same drama that i face burning cdrs that same company should be faced with by selling out their services or do they know that the majority of those cd players that dont play cdrs are going to be phased out in two years time?

thats a nice statistic

Thanks

Peace
Illa

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Burning a CD-R is not the same at all as pressing a glass master, no matter if "professional" is printed on the the burner.

Behringer puts the word "professional" on all its gear and it is anything but.....!

 

[ChristopherM]

OK...let me clear this up further:

My retail CDs = Glass master professionally done. Expensive. Looks better than CDRs and will play anywhere, though.

My DEMO CDs = "Professionally" burned CDRs. Done much faster than if I were doing it at home (done in one day while I do other things), done as cheaply as if I did it myself (cost of CDRs, labels, and ink cartridges), and the thermal printing on the disc looks much better than paper labels. I just started this practice with a run of 100 Christmas CDs I made for Christmas cards that I sent for both personal and promotional reasons.

 

[illacov]

For once i agree with the Bear

Anyone that thinks Behringer gear is 'professional" is absolutely insane. However i think this is why i absolutely love a good portion of their line.

It absolutely infuriates people that one can use a behringer desk and actually come up with halfway decent or damn good material..

They're sort of like the hyundais of the gear industry but they're still the old school hyundai cheaply built wont last too long but they do drive a bit ...

I dont really see the tradeoff.

I mean whats been lost in this discussion is none of you have ever said if you can sell it and its not a problem more power to you.

Nobody here has said that...which is something i definately have said.

Reality not withstanding..the reality is who has a grand to throw towards getting your album pressed if you just spent your money on studio time?

I feel that cdrs free you up from this dilemma and to be honest with you

Chris unless you have a 2 speed burner...how is sending your shit away to a factory for 48 hours any quicker or cheaper than burning the cds at home

I have a 48 speed burner and burnt 100 discs in less than 48 hours..Thats just with one burner.

As for the ink you're talking about...WHAT INK?? You're burning promo cds with simple labels on them thermal or not these arent 4 color labels and who said paper?? This is your example...
you could use a label it gun with transparent label tape and still get the same results...so far we're talking BOOTLEG quality cds. Go to a corner bootlegger and this is how they label their cds except you're paying for it over and over again...when they just bought the gun to label the cd ONCE.

79 bucks for JUST THE CDS no cases no labels ..yes cheaper and faster...
You're the one who posted the link and yes i get the same catalog

those are all cdrs man...im lost dude

every package i saw was a cdr...

ok so if i got these packages then you would buy a disc from me or would the smell of your own defecation still cloud your judgement??

Sorry i havent used that word in a while...on a serious note

Thanks for the information...that includes Chris and Bear...my deepest sympathy to Outlaws i wish you the best in your endeavors and all those you've pulled into your warbling abyss of a business model.

Thanks fellas

Peace
Illa

 

[CyanJaguar]

also keep in mind that the time you spend putting together the CD DIY (burning, printing, cutting, inserting etc) could be better spent actually selling the CD.

You still have not answered this aspect of the problem.

as you say, you want to sell city to city (which is a great idea, btw) Im guessing that you would want to sell at least 20 copies a day.

How much time will it take to print 20 CDs a day and paste the cover etc?

Also, how much time will it take to print 100? I can see a case where you have a hot CD and are in a large city and you need 100 per day.

Finally, how does the extra cost of doing it right really matter in the long run? You are selling 20 cds at $8 for $160 gross. does it really matter if your professional cost is $16 compared to $8 if you produced it yourself?

NOt to mention the fact that if you are doing this successfully from city to city, you dont want to have to go back to your base every night as that limits your distance. That means that you either have to take your computer with you and burn through the night at the hotel room, or have a large number of CDs available at the start.

 

[illacov]

NOW WE'RE TALKING!!

You actually arent making personal biased statements I love it!


My whole thing is this

I dont work alone man...my staff is well over 20 people deep and we have 3 bases of operation Syracuse, NY being the mainland and the other two being satellite centers but also well staffed satellites.

Between those 3 locations each area has the same capabilities as home base to duplicate cds.

So if i can get a good 300 discs burnt in 36 hours and this is while im selling cds all the while...then it shouldnt be a big problem especially since we talkin maybe 20 30 dollars shipping over night.

and this is 2400 dollars merchandise that we spending maybe 138 bucks USD to get into the salesmans hands from purchase of materials, plus manufacture and shipping in 36 hours or less. Thats not a bad prospect man.

The real purpose of going city to city is for promotions...yeah the sales too..but i know more people out in the west coast that have been feeling the Mt. Olympus Label for the last two years so im going out there to get exposure and airplay for the company as well as getting the other 12 acts some exposure too since some of them appear on my album.

BTW My singles are getting well over 30 hits a day, one of em topped out at 56 listens and this is repeat listens.

I wish some of you guys would actually READ a magazine about 50 cent and how he got signed before you shit on the concept of selling cdrs.

50 cent grossed 5 figures or more off one of his mixtapes and they werent pressed cds and they didnt sent the fuckin jacket to a printer. What needs to be understood is that there is a TON of grassroots money on the streets of the United States and the industry is losing out on this money because they dont cater to this crowd...this is why they are having a problem with bootlegging..people dont want to pay for cds when they cost x amount of dollars etc...me i dont care about bootlegging...once i earn my returns you can copy that album all you want either way that gets me listened to by more people which also means more people will be on the lookout for me next time around...if you're getting bootlegged smile with a frown..Nobody corny gets bootlegged.
It must be noted that 50 was still a unknown except to the underground circuit and he definately wouldnt have gotten signed following all these ideaologies that ive seen so far from some of the people on this forum..thank god it wasnt in those same peoples hands if he was gonna sell a cd or not.

But yes ive already worked out the supply pipeline for that whole scenario

But you did kind of let the cat out of the bag on the duplication thing on the road

We're in the process of renting an RV

Complete with a studio on board and a duplicator 1 to 7 duplicator.

Thats right burn on the road and get shipments under emergency situations.

But maybe that might cover the question you asked. Yes DIY is time consuming but im not even touching a dollar in expenses in my process yet.. I could understand if it cost me a 1.50 to produce one cd but thats not the case. I kind of like the 1500 % markup However 700 % aint bad either but thats still not 2 dollars a disc.

Maybe when we need a thousand cds in 24 hours or more then we might need a pressing house but thats also assuming that we dont have the equipment to do that kind of volume by ourselves by then

Quick aside the professional version of Nero lets you handle over 24 simultaneous CD Burners!...WOW!
With 24 , 48x burners thats 24 discs in 2 minutes 45 seconds. Thats insane man insane!

Peace
Illa

 

[ChristopherM]

Re: For once i agree with the Bear

Chris unless you have a 2 speed burner...how is sending your shit away to a factory for 48 hours any quicker or cheaper than burning the cds at home

I have a 48 speed burner and burnt 100 discs in less than 48 hours..Thats just with one burner.

You must not have a lot of other stuff to do in your life if you have 48 straight hours to burn CDRs. You have to be there to switch discs, hit the buttons, print the labels, stick the labels on, etc. What a pain in the ass. Don't you value your time? All that and it ends up looking like a kid did it.

The turnaround time might not be any quicker, but I have a LOT less time and effort invested in the project! Also, when you figure your costs, I don't think you're figuring everything in. Labels cost money, injet cartridges cost money, blank CDRs cost money (unless your buying that shitty CompUSA bulk pack or something...and plan on pissing a lot of people off if you sell CDRs burned on THAT crap!).

It only takes a few minutes to fill out a form and mail in a master disc...or to do it online! I spent about a total of 15 minutes sending away all that was needed for my Christmas disc. Now tell me how the hell I could have made 100 CDR demos for $79 at home in 15 minutes!

I can do the paperwork for DiscFaktory in less time than it takes to burn just a couple of CDRs on my 52x burner.

And as far as retail CDs go, a glass mastered professionally done CD is going to go a long way in convincing the general public you're "pro." A lot of people DO judge a book by it's cover.