Would an UltraGain Pro MIC 2200 be better than SM PR8?

[Jedman]

It was suggested I post this in the Rack forum:
I don't have much money left, but I need to get at least 2 channels of preamp, so I was looking at the Behringer Ultragain Pro MIC 2200, with 2 channels for $99. There is also an SMAudio PR8, 8 channel for $199. I think they both use the same 4580 preamps.

Would the Behringer be better, and would either of these be OK to use for "home-job" stuff?

Thanks,
Jed

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

Don't know about the SM thing, but the Behringer is not bad... in that price range.

Never used it myself, but I heard a lot of recordings with it, and they sounded fine.

 

[Jedman]

Stefan, thanks for the reply. I forgot to ask this earlier -- do you think it would sound OK with these mics: I have 3 Beta 58s and 1 Beta 57. I was thinking about getting 2 of these Behringer Ultragain Pro Mic 2200s. Would that be sufficient for these mics?

Thanks for input,
Jed

 

[Rossi]

I don't know about the other unit you mention, but on the Behringer (I have its predecessor, the Mic 2000), the microphone input stage is discrete transitor (which is better than op-amp based). It's only the output gain stage and the filters that use the said 4580 op-amp.

 

[Jedman]

Hey thanks, Rossi. So was that a "go for it" on the Mic 2200? I guess it's like Alfafa said - in that price range, there's not much competition. I don't really have much choice, I guess, because I already spent the lions share on other components. I guess I could get 2 Mic 2200s and have my 4 channels I need now...then get something better later for the other 4 channels when I need them, right?

Thanks again for all the input - this will be my first recording project.

Jed

 

[alfalfa]

Are you sure you definitely need 4 channels? I've read techniques to mic up a drum kit with just 3. If you only need three then consider getting a vtb-1 (which should be dropping in price) along with one ultragain. You can then use the vtb-1 for the more critical applications eg vocals.

 

[Jedman]

Hi, Alfalfa -- I started a new thread about a mixer board that I could use for the pres on it...I might be leaning that way now, because I think that's more bang for the buck. I don't mean to sound all religious or anything, but this first project is going to be recording a hymn CD for my folks, and there are 4 main vocal parts -- soprano, alto, tenor, and base - so I need at least 4 mics going at once. Of course, I could record some seperate, but I don't think that would be as much fun.
I was thinking of doing the piano MIDI, and I might mic in some acoustic guitar and violin as well...but probably after. Does that sound feasable?

Appreciate your input,
Jed

 

[alfalfa]

If you are using condenser mics than you are going to have difficulties isolating each individual singer if you record them simultaneously unless you have them in separate rooms/booths.

Another option is to record them all together using a stereo micing technique especially if the room sounds nice. eg a pair of cardiods in an xy config and maybe another pair of spaced omnis for more room sound. Try doing a search on recording acapella choirs.

I am used to doing all the instruments first and the vocals last (so the singer can hear the music as they sing).

 

[Rossi]

No, I wasn't saying "go for it" as I don't have a 2200. The older Ultragain 2000 model is somewhat different in that it is just a pre and nothing else, no EQ, no tube. All I can say is that my "vintage" Ultragain 2000 sounds pretty good; linear, no audible noise. The newer 2200 model is based on the same design, but I don't know if they were able to incorporate all those extras without compromises. I've heard that you better not use the built in EQ. Still I think, it ought to do the job, and it's probably better than the 8-channel pre you referred to.

I agree with alfalfa that micing each vocal section separately won't be a good idea, most probably. Keep in mind that there will be enormous bleed between the sections anyway and that you may run into phase problems. I'd try XY stereo micing; that's what most people do when recording a choir. That way you only need one stereo pre. Lots of people recommend the M-Audio DMP3, but the Behringer ought to do as well. If you need more ambience and if you're not too religious about it (pardon the pun) you can later on add *a bit* artificial ambience using a good digital reverb (e.g. Lexicon or TC) which you could rent or borrow for the purpose. But alfalfa's idea with additional spaced omnis is preferable if you have a good room. It'll be more work, though, and you need more equipment.

 

[alfalfa]

Rossi is right, an xy pair with some artificial reverb is the simplest option. The addtional spaced omni complicates it too much unless you know what you are doing and the room sounds really good.

 

[Jedman]

So I only need two mics then? Man...I went a little over board, I guess in getting the Delta 1010. I should have just stuck with a 4 in card and gotten better pres! Oh well, the learning curve is huge. I thought I'd need a mic for each person, and then a couple for instruments.
By XY, how do you mean I should setup the mics? They are only dynamic Beta 58s, not condensors, though. When I got them, I figured for the money they were more versitile than condensors -- but maybe that was flawed thinking.

Well, I guess I'm trying to decide whether to get a mixer or a dedicated preamp now...

Jed

 

[alfalfa]

There is a sticky thread in the microphone section that has lots of info about mics and micing techniques. Or do a search as I suggested on recording choirs. There is heaps of stuff archived.

A beta 58 tends to be used more for live applications rather than in studios though of course it may suit a particular vocalist.

Regarding mixers if you dont need a mixer then just get a dedicated pre. It will give you better sound for your buck as you are not paying for all the other stuff (which can also add noise to the signal path).

 

[Jeff_D]

the more channels you can record, the more control you have- can you do it with 2- maybe, 3 probably, 12- sure, i just spent the whole day recording drums- 4 mics, 2 overhead, 1 kick, 1 snare- did i need to mic the snare- maybe not, but i can adjust it now if i need to and thats a nice thing to have, at the same time, i had 2 guitars playing with the drum and i recorded them 2 (with a line in so no guitars were on the drum stuff) i would have done the bass to, but im the bass player and i cant really do both things at once, so i overdub the bass, and then vocals- heres the point- the more mics / pres / inputs you have, the more options you have in achieving a final product- especially if your doin drums- i had a teacher once that said you can never have too many mics goin at a time- if one doesnt seam to fit or you dont like the sound or whatever- delete it!- but its there if you want / like / need it- every system has limitations- but you got the capability of 8 simultaneous channels- why limit that by only havin 2,4,6 whatever pres- im not sayin you should or shouldnt buy all 8 pres right now- with your budget maybe start with four within your budget and get 4 more later- or get an inexpensive mixer with 8 pres- and sell it when you upgrade- or find another use for it around the studio- weight your options

-sorry for the long rambling post-
-jeff

 

[Jedman]

No, don't worry about the long post -- that's exactly the kind of info I was wanting!
Maybe I'll just keep this Delta 1010 then, and get an Alesis 12R rack mixer. I really like the looks of that thing, and it's supposed to have really quiet preamps.

As far as mics go...I guess I need 2 of the same mic for the XY configuration to mic the 4 singers together. What mics do you recommend, and would my Beta 58s work, or will I have to get new ones?
Man, the budget is dwindling FAST!

Thanks for input,
Jed

 

[Jeff_D]

WHats up JEd-

From my experience (not much) you gotta be pretty close to a dynamic mic to get a decent sound out of it(matter of inches), whereas the condesors seem to be more accurate at greater distance (matter of feet) which would be the case if you were micing a group of performers- i would check out the mic forum for suggestions there- and i've heard of people renting equipment around here, but i've never done it and i dont know where i would go if i needed to. oh, and yeah, from what ive heard you would be best off using 2 of the same mics, or even a factory matched pair.... and check this out http://www.zzounds.com/a--2676837/item--ALESTUDIO12R
and yeah- my recording budget(s) doesnt last long either

-jeff

 

[Jedman]

Yeah -- that's the exact mixer I'm looking at; what do you think? Seems decently priced and good quality, I guess.

Well, I read that whole thread in the microphone section, but I'm still not sure which 2 condensor mics to get for recording those vocals... maybe I'll start a thread in the mics section about it.

Thanks for your help Jeff,

Jed