Worth getting outboard preamp?

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grico

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Hi, I have a TASCAM FW-1884 which includes several 'high quality' preamps, and I'm running a Rode NT1000 through it.

I can't say it sounds spectacular at all. I was wondering whether it would be worth investing in an outboard preamp. Would there be anything under $800 or so that would REALLY bring the mic to life?

I've heard good things about the DBX 386 with the NT1000...
 
What do you think is missing from the sound?

Preamps can make a massive difference, but it depends a lot on the mic.

A high-output mic makes the preamp much less important. On the other hand, I have a couple of ribbon mics that are utterly useless without something good (my Sytek, for example). Even some dynamics like my RE20 really don't sound that good through a generic mixer preamp. My Sytek makes it really nice.

I don't have a Rode, but I'll bet the difference with a better pre will not blow you away. Audible, yes. Better, yes. Worth the money? Depends how much money you have laying around and what other gear would be a higher priority.
 
leddy said:
.............A high-output mic makes the preamp much less important............
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I beg to differ. A mic preamp with poor transient response and/or insufficient headroom will degrade the performance of any microphone.
 
RRuskin said:
I beg to differ. A mic preamp with poor transient response and/or insufficient headroom will degrade the performance of any microphone.
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Our statements are not mutually exclusive. A bad preamp is a bad preamp, true. But if a bad preamp makes a typical small condenser mic sound about 70% of its potential, that same bad preamp will make a typical RE20, SM7, ribbon mic, etc sound around 20% of its potential. That's my point.

The more gain your mic needs from that preamp, the more that preamp will be able to degrade your mic.
 
leddy said:
Our statements are not mutually exclusive. A bad preamp is a bad preamp, true. But if a bad preamp makes a typical small condenser mic sound about 70% of its potential, that same bad preamp will make a typical RE20, SM7, ribbon mic, etc sound around 20% of its potential. That's my point.

The more gain your mic needs from that preamp, the more that preamp will be able to degrade your mic.
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Most preamp circuits built in to interfaces and Tascam/Mackie class boards will not deliver anything near the performance of an RNP or better unit. My point is that the difference is anything but small, regardless of the mic used.
 
I did a side by side and the outboard Joe Meek preamp smoked the EMU1820.

thats my worthless 2cents of gas.
 
while i dont hade that nt1000... i do have the 1884 and that dbx386 and i love them both... the onboard pre's are not stellar i'll grant you but they are actually pretty good compared to other onboard pre's... as to the dbx... not wanting to sound like a commercial but... it's real tubes (no strarved plate here)... 60db of gain (will work well with sm7-re20)... inserts... onboard 24 bit convertors... up to 96k... AES and spdif outputs... soft limiter built in... so yeah i can reccommend it... for some reason they never really caught on very well... i think it's not cool enough for the maley/avalon crowd... and for those with the art/rolls units it's more money and lots more pre too... i even use it for the front end on my live keyboard rig... i can use the highZout for the stage and the lowZ to foh...
 
dementedchord said:
for those with the art/rolls units it's more money and lots more pre too...
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The ART DMPA has full plate voltage, 70dB of gain, 24 bit converters to 192kHz, AES and S/PDIF out . . . no soft limiter, but it does have variable input impedance . . . :D
 
The Line 6 UX8 is just under 500 bucks...and it does a great job modeling lots of high dollar pres including Neve...API...Avalon...etc.

And it makes alot of difference...I use alot of SM57s for instruments and tend to go to SM7 for my vocals and for most ladies an AKGc414...these are all very affordable and are more on par with what alot of the commercial CDs are made on.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
The Line 6 UX8 is just under 500 bucks...and it does a great job modeling lots of high dollar pres including Neve...API...Avalon...etc..
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on the one hand i bet you can get some good sounds from modelers... but personaly i never quite got the appeal... ok so it's modelling an avalon... but with what input???? a u87?? derived from what your 57?? what happens if ya use the 414??? how does the modeler know what you're inputting??? seems to me they're just taking advantage of the belief that you need vintage gear...
 
It doesnt model mics...just preamps...I remember there was an old modeler that did mics too and you had to have an AKG3000 to do the mic modeling.
 
i think the point still stands... it seems to me the model is still input dependent... just a thought... again not saying ya cant get good sounds from it... just not sure that the modeling itself holds true...
 
grico said:
I can't say it sounds spectacular at all. I was wondering whether it would be worth investing in an outboard preamp.
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Tell us something about your tracking room. How big is it? What's its shape? What kind of acoustic treatment does it have? You might be much better off putting your money into the room than into a preamp.
 
Robbie mic preamp

grico said:
Hi, I have a TASCAM FW-1884 which includes several 'high quality' preamps, and I'm running a Rode NT1000 through it.

I can't say it sounds spectacular at all. I was wondering whether it would be worth investing in an outboard preamp. Would there be anything under $800 or so that would REALLY bring the mic to life?

I've heard good things about the DBX 386 with the NT1000...
Click to expand...

In that price range a robbie is a killer mic preamp.I have many high end preamps and I love the sound of the robbie.It has a fat warm up front sound and lots of headroom(Gain)I use it on acoustic guitars and drums.get one cheap on ebay.My studio www.sterlingsoundstudios.com
 
dementedchord said:
i think the point still stands... it seems to me the model is still input dependent... just a thought... again not saying ya cant get good sounds from it... just not sure that the modeling itself holds true...
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Mic Choice is still important...and I have the cabinet I like right now...Ive veered away from all the chinese stuff and went with stuff Ive read my favorite records were made with...you cannot get a mic pre to make a crappy mic a U87...but it can make the U87 kick butt.
 
grico said:
Hi, I have a TASCAM FW-1884 which includes several 'high quality' preamps, and I'm running a Rode NT1000 through it.

I can't say it sounds spectacular at all. I was wondering whether it would be worth investing in an outboard preamp. Would there be anything under $800 or so that would REALLY bring the mic to life?

I've heard good things about the DBX 386 with the NT1000...
Click to expand...

Forget the pre-amp and get a good mic.
 
i'll one up that and say forget the preamp and mic until you know why you need one. the questions will answer themselves as you learn to evaluate your work.

Mike
 
darrin_h2000 said:
Mic Choice is still important...and I have the cabinet I like right now...Ive veered away from all the chinese stuff and went with stuff Ive read my favorite records were made with...you cannot get a mic pre to make a crappy mic a U87...but it can make the U87 kick butt.
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So you're running a U87 through a Line 6 UX8 then mastering through an APHEX Aureal Exciter??
 
Bargain Basement prices

Ok, my 10p's worth, too:

I can only go on personal experience. having never used a 'good-quality' (read, expensive) pre-amp, I can't comment, but I've seen enough around to know that they must be worthy of independant purchase, otherwise we'd all be using that channel strip on the desk.

When I first started out, I couldn't afford a classy pre-amp, so I bought a midiman (M-Audio) Audio Buddy, for about £50 in 2002. They're still only about £60 now.

http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/audio-buddy/657

I'm still a cheapskate budgeteer and, having just purchased the Tapco Blend 6 (Mackie designed pre-amp), I gave it an aural once over to check it was OK. I tested it with my Rode NT2 and to be honest, I think the Audio Buddy sounds far better, considering it's just a gain control with a peak light, that's bargain basement price
 
MOFO Pro said:
So you're running a U87 through a Line 6 UX8 then mastering through an APHEX Aureal Exciter??
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The APHEX was in alot of matering racks durring the late 70s...and no I do not have a U87...just making an example of what you should expect a preamp to do for you...I am currently using a C414 with the pres in the Line6.
 
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