WORST OVERRATED GUITARISTS------

pchorman

pchorman

New member
I thought Tweedville's thread on underrated guitarists was very interesting. Now let me ask you to put the shoe on the other foot and state who you think is not so deserving of their fame, or credit for mastership of their instrument.

I have a couple in mind. For one, can someone make clear to me why the artist formerly known as...the artist formerly known as...Prince is so highly regarded as "one of the best musicians in the world"? Yea, I hear he plays a load of instruments (on the order of twenty something?) but you know, I can't think of one snippet of just one of his songs that has ever impressed me or made me reach for my guitar. I'm no big fan of his and therefore only know of his tunes which get radio play (which may make it unfair for me to speak), but what I've heard just never blew me away. If I'm wrong here, just cite the song that proves otherwise - I'll go and listen to it and then shut up.

And here's another that I may take major league flames for: I do like much of Bruce Springsteen's music, but a master of the guitar he certainly is not. There just isn't a rythym or a solo of his (did I say solo?) that someone with a few years strumming experience could not replicate. But this is no reflection on his other music skills (singing or songwriting), just his guitarwork.

thoughts?
 
Tom Petty's no genius, I've heard people say Mark Tremonti (of Creed by the way) is the "best guitarist ever" because of his "innovative riffs". All I've heard him do is run up and down scales (slowly) in octaves. Wow....yeah, awesome. Lemme think....this is fun....Darn....well, I can give an opinion that'll probably get criticism, but I htink Jimmy Page is extremely overrated, but he's better than the others on my list. Well, that's all for now. I may be back with more....

Mike
 
Well I agree about Petty and Tremonti, but have to disagree about Page - some of his solos are blazing, some are jazzy and some are very creative and melodic, but most are quite challenging to pull off. Keep in mind he's spent years as a session musician and probably inspired a good many people on this forum (he was my main inspiration for picking up the guitar). But, everyone has their strengths and weakenesses and maybe you find Page's work unsophisticated and easy to pull off, so I respect your opinion. Personally, I still strive to nail some of his sounds after growing up with and playing along to his music all these years.
 
One man's genius is another's moron. Most of the guitarists I hold in high regard are probably no more than average when it comes to technical proficiency, but I sure like the songs they contribute to. I mean, I don't think anyone will ever single out anyone in Sonic Youth as an incredible player or Bob Mould as a guitar god, but I prefer their playing much more than some others who may be able to play better. Whatever that means.

About Prince - he may not entirely float my boat, either, but he's an amazing song writer.
 
You wanna hear a lousy guitarist listen to Niel Young , my dog can play better .But the guy made a lot of money , what does that say for the average Joe buying records ? The lowest common denominator , what did P T Barnum say about underestimating the intelligence of the buying public ?
 
Bravo,part II

Good thread,pchorman....we do need two feet,don't we?
Ted Nugent would be high on my list.....he overrates himself,unlike most players.As far as the emphasis WE put on players,I would add (1) Richie Sambora
(2) Neil Young (the Bob Dylan vocal
of soloists)
(3) Dimebag Darrell
(4) Kurt Cobain
(5) Gary Richrath
(6) Pat Travers
Everyone has something to offer though.
 
I agree with the guy that thinks Page is very overrated. He was certainly influential, and very creative and innovative when it came to production, but his playing is just not that good.

I think Slash is overrated too.

If Clapton hadn't done what he did with Mayall, Cream, Blind Faith, and Derek and the Dominoes, I'd probably consider him overrated too (ouch, it hurts me to say that).

Santana has also skated for so long, I get bored of him quick... but he can do it sometimes, he's got such a great touch and tone...

Lessee... couple more... Robbie Krieger of the DOors... Mark Farner of Grand Funk... Ted Nugent...
 
Wow, here we go. To start, a disclaimer: all are entitled to their own opinions, but I think you are all off the mark here, though it may just be an issue of restating the question. First, how could someone like Gary Richrath be overrated? He was a guitarist in essentially a loud pop band and as I recall wasn't ever on the cover of Guitar Player. Maybe we are confusing not very good or not our fave for overrated. REO Speedwagon sold lots of albums, but it was for catchy sing alongs, not blazing fretwork. If HE was overrated, it was by music fans who hadn't heard many other guitar players (you know the kind of fans who think Elvis was a good guitarist cause they heard James Burton on his records and saw Elvis holding a Gibson). Sorry to pick on Tweedville for one of his responses, but I'm seeking to clarify this issue (at least for myself anyway).

Now I could take all the rest of those joes individually, but I'm sure you all will tire quickly of my run-on sentences. So here's three:

Prince : Now here's a hot one who always inspires debate. Nobody could deny this guy's multi-instrumental prowess. Studio witnesses say it just sorta flows out of him, hopping from one instrument to another. Nobody could deny his vocal chops. Dude can sing. He plays the guitar very well, but it is usually in service of his songs with some occasional wanking (which we are all guilty of on occasion). It comes down to whether you love his music or hate it. But we shouldn't bag on his guitar playing because we can't dig "Little Red Corvette" or "Cream". I just think we all wish we could pull that kind of tail...jealous us!

Neil Young : Yes at times he sounds like a kid who just learned the blues scale and randomly runs it up and down with some distortion on. But at other times this guy absolutely ATTACKS the instrument and pulls out some AMAZING stuff. The key is he's TRYING to get somewhere with his soloing. He doesn't always get there, but would his songs be the same with some polished sideman solos dropped in? No way. I think most of us wouldn't lay it out like that 'cause we dont have the cojones to possibly fail and look like a "bad" guitar player.

Jimmy Page : Another great debate subject. Certainly not the most technically able of guitarists, but his legacy won't be the solos. The songs, the layers of parts and the production of the records are what he'll be remembered for. But there's some great moments of inspired sloppiness on guitar. If a guitarist learns the transcription to the solo break from "Heartbreaker" note-for-note and plays it perfectly (I've witnessed this) it still won't have the feel of the original which was certainly tossed off the cuff, but fits perfectly in the song.

I think it really comes down to whether you have something to express on the instrument.

P.S.
C'mon AlChuck, that's all that Clapton will ever need to do (actually, "Crossroads" was probably enough by itself), and "Soul Sacrifice" and "Black Magic Woman" don't bore you quickly, its the Matchbox Twentysomething cash-in that annoys you so...I know it sure does me.

peace.
 
white flag a'wavin'

effedupstrat........you are right.
I did try to say that everyone has something to offer.Actually,Gary Richrath was on the cover of Guitar Player.......mine are out in the garage in a box,so I'll research the date for you.
Jimmy Page was a fave of mine in the early to mid '70s,but he could be sloppy.........but when he was on,look out!He is a composer and tonemeister though.
 
Tweedville,
I've only had a 'scrip to GP for about 12 or 15 years or so, so I believe you that he was on the cover (certainly soliciting many "why the hell did you put THAT guy on the cover letters like they have in EVERY issue). I think we essentially agree on this. Unfortunately the world-at-large will probably forever underrate real musicians and call mere entertainers "artists". C'est la vie.

peace.
 
effedupstrat,

I agree with you. Clapton really was the real deal, and I've been sad since 1975 or so when everything he did just sounded so backed-off, safe... When I heard his solos on "Had to Cry Today" and "Do What You Like" (from Blind Faith), I was hearing him reaching beyond the blues stuff... then he backed off from that. In later years I heard him denigrate his ability and express being uncomfortable with treading into those waters, like he was being expected to be a "jazz" guitarist or something. But with his unbelievable natural talent he would have been killer. Yet still, look at what he did leave us... I guess I wouldn't be expecting Graig Nettles to still be playing thrid base like he did once...

But then, look at Jeff Beck...

I agree with you about Page too, I just never liked him, and I still think "overrated" really applies to him as a guitar player.

And Santana, did you ever here the two songs he played on on Weather Reports last album, This is This?
 
AlChuck,
I definitely know what you mean about Clapton. We all wish that our favorite players would just keep playing what we like forever. Too bad they don't see it our way. I haven't heard those Weather Report tracks, though. I'll have to check it out. I'm assuming you meant that Carlos played well on those?

peace.
 
Ok, my 2 cents worth.

In following the debate:

Neil Young: I agree with effedupstrat; NY really tries to be creative and has an unusual approach. Keep in mind this guy started in the early 70's and nobody played the guitar quite the way he did.

Jimmy Page: I'm sick of LZ after listnening to too much for too long but listen to I'm Gonna Crawl and All of My Love if you need to be reminded of his creativity.

Slash is a guilty pleasure for me, I just love his chops. He has a strong sense of melody when he plays in spite of the fact that he's always drunk.

Clapton ripped off all of the black blues musicians before him and got credit cuz he's white. Him and Elvis both can burn in Hell.

The two best guitar players of all time are Jimi Hendrix (obviously) and Frank Zappa. Nobody can touch FZ on his compositional/improvisational ability. On his early albums you wonder if he can even PLAY the damn guitar but by the end of his career his solos are simply astonishing. Jimi could wacky modal sometimes and his command of rythm amazes, especially when he takes goofy meters and really makes them groove.
 
Depends on the criteria.

Page: Sloppy yet creative.

Clapton: Over-rated?? Okay, not my cup of tea but influenced millions. Probably the best vibrato ever.

Slash: I considered him mediocre in his day.

Prince: I don't think he's considered a great guitar player. Maybe a great musician but not a great guitar player.

Richie Sambora: Totally over-rated. But, I might just be saying that because he gets to hit Heather Locklear at night. ;-]

My single most over-rated guitarist in his time? Steve Stevens with Billy Idol. Nobody should get famous for playing effects.

Over-rated guitarists? Anyone who played in a major band after about '88 or '89 when Nirvana killed rock. Look at the covers of guitar mags today. Beck, the Beatles, Hendrix, hell, I even saw one with Randy Rhoads on the cover. The fact that today's guitarists can't rate the cover definitively tells you how far today's guitar playing has degenerated. Talking about credible guitarists as "over-rated" when today's airways are dominated with utterly incompetent guitarists is kind of silly if you ask me.

But, that's just my opinion. ;-]
 
great point, Wes.

Now for a change and for some flames......

The Edge.

I love U2. I buy their discs. I sing their songs. I play some of their tunes on guitar. But I have never been impressed with the guitar work - all effects and no action.



[Edited by pchorman on 01-06-2001 at 13:53]
 
this is educational :o)

As I look at the lists we have all made,I can remember some good stuff played by all of them.I guess it's amusing to wonder why someone can be talked about so much and then you hear them....you're expecting something new and original (Stanley Jordan,Michael Hedges,Chet Atkins,ect),but instead it's some of the same stuff we all play (which may be good,but not mag cover stuff)-----you get confused by the hype.Where did it come from? I'm not impressed with flashy musicianship----I'd rather see someone use their guitar as a tool to play the song,rather than the opposite (e.g.,all the '80s hair farmer guitar czars who used poorly written "songs" just to play their version of yet another fast scale..you know...the Yngwie-wanna-be's).Most of the time the best part isn't the solo by a long shot.
It is difficult to see these guys making millions of dollars while we sit home and write about them. (haha LOL)
 
pchorman


No flames here. I totally agree. Seemed like the Edge played the same two chords at different speeds for every song.

Tweedville

You raise an interesting point. Are we talking about sheer guitar virtuosity or are we talking about songwriting? George Harrison, after playing what had to be a thousand cover tunes, knew neat chordal stuff which he incorporated into his lead playing. So, I don't think he would be considered over-rated. But he wasn't what you would call technical.

OTOH, Yngwie played some interesting stuff albeit into the ground and usually over not so stellar songs. But, if you can't physically do it, it's hard to say it sucks as guitar playing. More honest approach would be to say it was technically proficient but musically deficient.
 
Hmm...Now I remember why I usually don't like talking to other guitar players. I'm not acutally taking real offense, but it seems that a good many of my faves are getting knocked here.

I happen to really like sloppy guitarists like Page, Jimi, Slash, J. Mascis, Neil, Johnny Greenwood (you can see I'm speaking of rock guitarists here. This does not apply to jazz and classical)...

I have absolutely no guilt in proclaiming that yngwie-type wankers are all overrated. Go to any guitar shop on a saturday and you'll hear a million guys who can play just as clean and fast, sweep arpeggios and whatnot. The one thing that they are all missing is the ability to translate human energy into sound.

Thank god Nirvana killed rock.
 
Yea, I like the other thread better - this one's like negative campaign ads. My guitar heroes have been beat up enough. If someone says one more bad thing about Page I'm gonna cry.

wah wah wah
 
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