worlds smallest studio

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zorf

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ok, maybe a laptop with headphones is smaller, but i want to track my
stand up cocktail drumset, standup bass, keyboard, sax, teeny 50's tube amps
and vocals in a room:

7 ft high by
6.5 ft. wide by
11.5 ft. long
It has 3 1x2 ft windows one centered in one end, the other 2 oposite each other midpoint on the sides.

spent 30 hours here and on john's and ethan's sites.

So questions are:

I'm planning on floor to ceiling bass traps. What happens if i glue minerl wool
or acoustic cotton into the corner instead of at a 45 degree angle. I need every inch i can find in a room that size. I dont think i can fit too many more panels in there.Is it better to have 4 big traps in the corners
or 8 smaller size one at every corner ceilings/walls.

Should i skip figure 8 and omnis in a room that size or just sing into a corner?

If i have to, i can mix in another room, but that is my only available space
to make noise

Sorry in advance if all this has been covered before.

Just added this in edit:
i guess iwas just wondering if anybody had tried something this small
before and if there is anything particular to pay attention to.
 
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Bass builds up between a corner and the opposite corner because that is the longest dimension of the room. Having one corner with a massive quantity of absorbtion does not do it if the opposite diagonal has nothing.

Another thing to bear in mind is that you cannot absorb more than all. An absorbtive panel can only absorb the sound that hits it. A six inch thick trap theoretically will absorb more than a four inch trap but three four inch panels will definitly absorb more than two six inch traps for the same quantity of mineral wool because there is more surface area. A four inch panel with an air gap behind it absorbs as close to everything that hits it that the extra two inches is better located elsewhere.

So, for example some people talk about how much absorbtion a floor to ceiling 'superchunk' trap would have, but for the same mineral wool you could have six four-inch traps spread around all the corners rather than just one.
 
I vote for practicality and comfort in the room over theoretically perfect treatment. Do what you need to do so that you're happy to spend time in there. I think with some basic treatment, you can get the place sounding ok even without eating up corner space with diagonallyplaced bass traps.

I'm thinking of a vocal booth-- I mean, they're tiny, but people use them to track one of the most crucial elements of a recording...

Anyway, if you're spending quality time in there, your work will pay off with quality soudning recordings. Treat it, but don't box yourself in to the point of claustrophobia.
 
zorf--

I have little experience with figure eights and omnis (only just bought a pair of small diaphragm condensors that have omni capsules, mxl 604)

but I think that if you already own them, try them out.

if you really want to play with mics, my guess is that if you have a lot of absorbtion in that little room, then any mic would be worth trying.

Good luck.
 
Small rooms are not at all rare in recording (home and pro studios both.) Vocal booths and isolation rooms are often much smaller than your room, and often have very little treatment. The placement of instruments, amps, people and mics will have more affect on sound than you may think. Finding those perfect locations is a matter of experimentation, moving something a few inches or turning it to a slightly different angle will alter the way it sounds/records, especially in a small room. A couple of movable diffuser panels may be more practical than large traps in a room the size of yours. The low celing may cause problems for vocals (or it might help) depending on both singer and mic.
 
Dani,

I am not terribly experienced in home recording, but the professional studios that I have seen have all had a fair amount of treatment, even in "live" rooms.

Where have you seen this?

Maybe I am thinking of mixing rooms, which need more exacting treatment to sound good. But common sense tells me that a small room will sound boxy and ill-defined as the small dimensions add to comb filtering and to emphasizing certain frequencies.

Also, think of how close the nodes will be, both physically and in their frequency-- the standing waves generated between walls 6.5' apart and those generated between the floor and ceiling at 7' will be very close in frequency, knocking out a chunk of sonic space in the recording.

Again, you may be right, but I want more proof-- I do like your point about placement, but if read by a newbie, I think your post is de-emphasizing the importance of absorbtion in a room that small. In the year or so that I've been reding up on this stuff, I have read over and over that diffusion is more suitable to larger rooms. Smaller ones should be treated with more of a focus on absorbtion rather than diffusion.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that absorbtion panels or bass traps wont help, they definately will. I was just saying large panels really sap your space and may get in the way while a couple of smaller diffusors might help to "focus" sounds in a small room. It's easier to get a small room to sound too dead than it is to make it sound more open and alive. One of the best sounding (imo) vocal/iso rooms I ever worked in was approximately 5'X7' with 8' celing, very thick walls, carpet on the floor, a 3'X5' window between it and the tracking room and no traps whatsoever. Maybe it was the room, maybe the engineer, maybe I was just having a particularly good day, I can't say for sure but for whatever reason, it worked. It was also there that I learned to set amps at an angle to the wall to cut down on reflections or break them up or whatever it does. Not at a 45 degree angle, more like 15-20 degrees, just enough so sounds don't bounce straight back. I hope I cleared this up a little, I reread my original post and see how it could be taken the wrong way. By all means, use as much room treatment as nessassary to make your room sound as good as possible, while keeping a little working space.
 
Dani Pace said:
It's easier to get a small room to sound too dead than it is to make it sound more open and alive.
Click to expand...

+1

So diffusion should be important in small rooms, too. Hmm. Makes sense to me. I also agree about not hemming oneself in too much with treatment.
 
Hi, Nickd,
here's a quick scetch.
All the walls except the east wall are exterior walls. The walls are open framing on the inside. 2x6 except the south wall which is 2x4. Above the cieling is the laundry area. Open2x8 joists.
Was thinking of filling the framing bays with 1" rigid followed by r-13 paperbacked fiberglass, Folled by 1/2 plywood, followed by limp mass vinyl
(loved their first album) followed by 5/8 sheetrock. On the cieling, i'd skip the plywood.
I was going to make 4 vertical coloums of minerel wool or acoustic cotton
in the 4 corners. maybe 4 inches each. I was going to put broadband absorbers ( same material?) across the inside of the door and opposite under the window.
 

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sounds too complicated. why not just some 2" fibarglass board? Is soundproofing all that important? I thought you wanted it to sound good in the room.

Remember, sound proofing and sound treatment often work against eachother....
 
Seems like there should be a stratagy for keeping sound from getting out,
adding the right amount of shear strength to walls, allowing vapor to escape, and absorbing the right amount of bass. Maybe someday there will be a single sheet of material that will do all that.
 
Yaay Zorf! That miracle materal bit is a great idea, too bad none of us have found it yet. If I discover it I'll be sure to let you (and everyone else) know.
 
putting the absorbers on the ceiling-wall corner will help conserve floor space. also consider giving up a foot of space on one end to build some bass trapping - i.e. make the entire wall a good bass trapping setup. its only a foot but would help.
 

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Hey,
Thanks, Glen!

Cool drawing, too.

That's kind of what i was afraid i would need to do. I guess a smaller room is better than no room! (what i have now)

Do you think the bass trap wall in your drawing would be best placed
on the wall opposite my monitors, then?

And what would be better; mineral wool, acoustical cotton, or 703?

thanks again
 
I think you use 4" of 703 and put in some 1/2 or 3/4 plywood (wrapped in soft insulation) hangers to try to add some more trapping in that space. if you can spare a cloud over head - but 7' is pretty low already. you don't want to wind up with a dead room even if its small. plus I think the cocktail kit bass "drum" is probably not a much a problem. keeping the volume levels reasonable will help... yeah - put the monitors on the side opposite the bass trap.
 
joists

i just noticed that you mentioned 2x8 joists.... this is great for treating the ceiling if you don't need sound*proofing*.... get some 703 or equivalent up in there!

edit: cover w/fabric, though! f'gls is bad fer ya. ;)
 
hey guys, thanks again!

So Obi, following up on your idea, would you be creating a single large absorber panel in effect and do you think this eliminate the need for the wall/ceiling traps?

And i re-measured the joices, 2x6 on 16" centers. 2", 4", or 5" of 703 then?


How much sound would leak out (up stairs) if i didn't add the sheetrock?

I guess i'm a little unclear on the dynamics of absorbing sound and
keeping from leaking outside and how they interact.


I'm getting excited! I'm going to order some material and start next week.
 
Zorf,
Good luck with your room. Looks like you got some pretty good advice but I'd like to horn in on your thread and ask a question that may be of help to us both.
Is the use of bass traps in the ceiling corners and wall corners the standard beginning step to acoustically treating a room or, at least, a small room?

I'm in a similar situation where I just finished building a "sound-proof" practice room in my basement that is also small. 10'6'' X 10''10" X 7'2" high with two field-stone foundation walls, cement floor and two drywall walls (double 5/8 with green glue) and a drywall ceiling (double 5/8 with greenglue) I'm picking up my 703 today and just popped on to get some idea's for placement when I came across this thread. I hope you forgive my intrusion and I hope any responses prove useful to us both.
 
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