Wiring path of an external pre...

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kranky

kranky

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Ok, from what I've read I'm going to get better performance from an external pre than the ones on my Mackie VLZ pro. Now, for example, say that all the XLR jacks in my studio run directly to the XLR inputs of the mackie board, and knowing that you never want to run a mic signal through a patch panel, how would this work? Would I want to dedicate an XLR jack or two in the studio to run directly to my external pre then to a line input on my Mackie? What is the common professional wiring practice for introducing an external pre to your control room? Thanks.
 
How about running your external pres OUTPUTS through a patchbay?

With that setup you could mult the output, sending one signal direct to your recording medium, and another signal to monitors.
 
Kranky - you got it right. The mic goes into the pre, the pre goes into a line input on your board.

To make it much more flexible, as riley357 suggests, wire the pre output(s) and all your mixer line inputs to a patch bay so that you can patch the pre in to any channel. This also goes for the mic feeds... if you have more then one, wire them up so you can patch into any pre that you have including the mackie inputs.

Cheers
Kevin.
 
Kranky, mic to external preamp, external preamp to line input on board. If you use a patchbay, that would be wired between the preamp outputs and mixer inputs.

The only issue with this routing on the Mackie mixers and many other budget mixers is that *both* the mic and line inputs are routed through the onboard preamps. The XLR mic input is routed to the preamp as expected, but the line input is attenuated and then routed through the Mackie preamp as well. So, if you want to avoid the sound of the Mackie preamps you have to route the external preamp to the *inserts* on the board, not the line inputs.

My understanding is that all the Mackie mixers are like this, with the exception of the LM-3204.
 
That's interesting about the Mackie line inputs running through the pre's also. I was unaware of that. So the output of the pres to my patch panel for signal routing, gotch-ya! I'm still a little hazy on the other end. longsoughtfor, you suggested making the mic inputs from my studio to my control room patchable so as I could use any pre of my choice. I have been told, however, that you should never run a mic through your patchbay. Is this not true? How should I properly make the mic inputs patchable? thanks!
 
Just in case you're not aware you will probably have to get a pretty decent pre to beat your Mackie. Most big name pres that cost over $500 a channel will yield a noticeable improvement but if you are talking about Audio Buddies or Blue Tubes then save your cash.
 
longsoughtfor said:
Kranky - you got it right. The mic goes into the pre, the pre goes into a line input on your board.

To make it much more flexible, as riley357 suggests, wire the pre output(s) and all your mixer line inputs to a patch bay so that you can patch the pre in to any channel. This also goes for the mic feeds... if you have more then one, wire them up so you can patch into any pre that you have including the mackie inputs.

Cheers
Kevin.
Click to expand...

No. The mic goes to the pre and the pre goes to the "ring" of your Insert. You can buy the Tip/Ring breakout cable at GC. The insert "IN" (ring) bypasses your Mackie pre-s. Going to the "line In" of your Mackie does NOT bypass the pre. Hence, no real change in sound and the prime reason people buy expensive pres and hear no difference (blaming the pre).
 
TexRoadkill said:
Just in case you're not aware you will probably have to get a pretty decent pre to beat your Mackie. Most big name pres that cost over $500 a channel will yield a noticeable improvement but if you are talking about Audio Buddies or Blue Tubes then save your cash.
Click to expand...

No shit.

I still can't really tell the difference between my Davisound and my Roland. :( :o
 
When people say never run a mic through your patchbay they probably mean *before* the preamp. So in other words mic>patchbay>preamp would be wrong, but mic>preamp>patchbay would be fine. I personally usually wire the external preamp outputs directly to the AD converter, bypassing the patchbay and mixer. Not always, but in critical situations.

Regarding the line inputs being routed to the mic preamps on Mackie mixers, it is only fair to say that this is the way *most* inexpensive mixers are designed. It's not just a Mackie thing. Digital or analog, they pretty much have the same design.
 
Just wondering if this is the right way. I have the pre wired to a patch bay. from the patch bay I take a direct line into the audio input of a MOTU 24 i/o and then monitor it on a Mackie.

In other words, I don't see why the outputs of the pre should go into the board at all since ultimately, you must take another output from the board into whatever recording device you have.

I would imagine that almost all recording devices can be monitored while they record. Is this not so.
 
Jerry, thats' the way I do it. Bypassing any unnecessary signal paths is the best way to go.
 
I don't know where you guys got the urban myth that you can't run mic level signals through a patchbay... it's done throughout the world on a very regular basis... in fact, I don't think I've ever seen an SSL that doesn't have mic patching... but that's neither here nor there.

You can run mic level signals through a patchbay should you so desire.

In terms of the output of the outboard mic pre you're thinking of getting... the farther you can keep the signal from the Mackie the better. While you will probably notice some improvement with a good quality outboard mic amp... if you run it through a Mackie on the way to being recorded you're not getting everything possible from the outboard mic amp... the Mackie is a definite impediment to excellent audio.

If you run from the mic pre, to say a compressor &/or EQ directly to the A/D converter you're probably going to realize more of the tonal benefit of a good quality outboard mic pre.

However, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link... so if the compressor you're running through sucks, or the EQ sucks or the A/D sucks... you will be adding a level of 'suck' to the audio.

Best of luck with it.
 
I agree about being able to run mic level signals thru a patch bay. There are numerous high end facilities that do just that. That way it gives the flexibility to plug the mic into what is available elsewhere on the patchbay....either a specific console channel or other [outboard] pre. Infact, I think it is one of the more organized ways to route your mic signals coming from your studio room(s) without being committed to having something like a snake plugged in all the time, or the hassle of plugging stuff in or out that ISN'T on the patch bay.

How would it really differ from a wall panel out in the studio...?...just connectors, that's all.

anywazz...I think the original question of "What is the common professional wiring practice for introducing an external pre to your control room?...the patchbay would be it.

You might even consider bypassing all other hardware and routing the preamp directly to your recording device, providing you are able to set levels accurately....another fairly common practice.... the board being used pretty much strickly for monitoring in this situation.
 
Of course you can run mic level signal through a patchbay, but isn't it preferred to run line level? Isn't there less possibility of adding unwanted noise or interference? Just asking, I am curious now.

Also, the studios you mention probably have TT patchbays that are hard wired on the rear, all professionally done. Many people here will be using cheap 1/4" patchbays. Will this make a difference?
 
Well obviously the patchbay would have to be TRS otherwise you can't correctly run your mic channels through a patch bay.

I think a lot of people have probably read that it isn't recommended because of phantom power... you have to make sure that you turn off your phantom power BEFORE changing mics etc or you run the risk of damaging equipment when you repatch (shorting the voltage across the leads).

Otherwise... phantom power aside... running a mic path through a patch bay is no different than running any other balanced source through your bays.

Just watch the phantom power.

Velvet Elvis
 
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