Will supercardioid mic make alot of difference

HangDawg

HangDawg

bUnGhOlIo
To help control bleed when close micing drums? I don't currently have any and have never used one as I am still kind of a newbie. I'd like to get a little tighter close mic sound than I'm getting currently. I've been using SM57's and MD421's and there is a bit too much bleed. Any recommendations on a good one?
 
Audix OM5 and OM3 have pretty good rear sound rejection. They sound great on voice. Not sure how they would sound on drums. They do have a tight pattern though.

Blessings, Terry
 
well, with drums, there are a couple issues here.....mainly bleed and off-axis rejection. the sm57 has a pretty nasty sounding off-axis rejection, which can make close-micing drums with them pretty sketchy. the nasty off-axis sounds will negatively color the otherwise good sounding "on axis" (intended) sound. this could be interpreted as "excessive bleed" to the untrained ear.

when i mic drums, i aim for the majority of my drum sound to come from the overheads (and/or room mics), kick mic, and snare mic. i mic the toms as well, but i gate those mics and often don't use them. sometimes i'll gate the snare and kick mic too, but often that does more harm than good. if you can get the kit sounding good on its own in the room, then you don't need a plethora of close mics.

anyway, yes, super cardioid *may* help focus the mic better on the source.....but oftentimes super cardiod mics have a worse sounding off-axis pickup. i'd look for mics that "sound better from around back and to the sides", more so than tighter patterns....but that's just me. i don't tend to rely on close mics much, though......so take this FWIW......YMMV.....


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
the nasty off-axis sounds will negatively color the otherwise good sounding "on axis" (intended) sound. this could be interpreted as "excessive bleed" to the untrained ear.
Click to expand...


That is more than likely the case then. It's not horrible, but it's something I would like to improve upon. I have a hard time positioning a 57 or 421 on toms too. I wonder how something like an e609 would work? It's supercardioid and I could position it a little easier too.
 
the e609 is reported to be a very nice tom mic. i haven't tried one, but a number of folks around here have.

lots of folks like the EV 468 as a tom mic as well--they're small and the round swiveling head makes them easy to place. i've had pretty good results with them in the past--i'd like to pick up a couple at some point.

cheers,
wade
 
A tighter pattern can certainly help things a little, especially for hi-hat bleed.

Problem is the whole logistics of it all are pretty much working against you. Drums are loud instruments ... so it's expecting a lot of a microphone not to pick up the sound of something that's very loud and less than a foot away from it ... whether or no it's in it's rejection null. It's a somewhat unrealistic expectation, for the most part.

I believe someone already mentioned this ... but off-axis response is probably a good deal more important than off-axis rejection. You're going to get bleed; that's just the reality of it. The best you can hope for is that bleed doesn't negatively impact the sound of what's bleeding in.

example: Would you consciously mic a hi-hat with an sm-57 pointing in the other direction ... and make that part of your hi-hat mic'ing strategy? :-) Well, that's bascially what you're doing every time you mic a snare with a 57 with hihat in the null, basically.

I like a 57 on snare as much as the next guy. The reason I refuse to use one is because I don't like what it does to a hi-hat.
 
chessrock said:
I like a 57 on snare as much as the next guy. The reason I refuse to use one is because I don't like what it does to a hi-hat.
Click to expand...

That, right there is definately an issue. I'm going to work on an alternative snare mic first I think. MD421 on snare anyone?????
 
<<I like a 57 on snare as much as the next guy. The reason I refuse to use one is because I don't like what it does to a hi-hat.>>

thanks chessrock--that's EXACTLY what i was referring to, albeit not as succinctly. :D i too hate what a 57 does to the hihat in the null. that's why i prefer (out of my meager locker) the senn 835 on snare (or none at all).

<<MD421 on snare anyone?????>>

that'd certainly work, although some folks prefer the 441. the 421's a little on the large side, though, and i'd be concerned about it getting whacked. that's one of the reasons i *do* like the 57 on snare--they're cheap and easily replaceable. :b

i'd REALLY like to get my hands on a beyer 201....i just keep hearing report after report about it being a superb snare mic--partly b/c it's so small, and partly b/c it does "nice things" to the hat in the null.


of course, you COULD just record the drums separately from the cymbals. :D


wade
 
Boys, y'all are confused. A supercardioid mic has a *wider* pickup pattern than a cardioid, with *greater* off-axis response. A hypercardioid has a narrower pickup pattern with less off axis response. If you don't like what the SM57 does to hihat, a supercardioid mic, such as Sennheiser e609 might work for you. Don't confuse the two. "Supercardioid" means "bigger than cardioid.-Richie
 
Boys, y'all are confused. A supercardioid mic has a *wider* pickup pattern than a cardioid, with *greater* off-axis response. A hypercardioid has a narrower pickup pattern with less off axis response. If you don't like what the SM57 does to hihat, a supercardioid mic, such as Sennheiser e609 might work for you. Don't confuse the two. "Supercardioid" means "bigger than cardioid".-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Boys, y'all are confused. A supercardioid mic has a *wider* pickup pattern than a cardioid, with *greater* off-axis response. A hypercardioid has a narrower pickup pattern with less off axis response. If you don't like what the SM57 does to hihat, a supercardioid mic, such as Sennheiser e609 might work for you. Don't confuse the two. "Supercardioid" means "bigger than cardioid".-Richie
Click to expand...
Who's confused? I thought the point of this thread was less off-axis response. Chessrock was making a technical distinction, not a recommendation. (Stop me if I'm wrong, Chess.) But to be fair I've heard the e609 makes a good tom mic.

Ah, shit, maybe I am confused. I'm going to bed.
 
HangDawg said:
That, right there is definately an issue. I'm going to work on an alternative snare mic first I think. MD421 on snare anyone?????
Click to expand...
The Beyer M201 is my favorite snare mic.
 
<< I thought the point of this thread was less off-axis response >>

well....IMO, more so "better sounding off axis response" than "less". the sm57 sounds pretty gnarly (and in a bad way) off axis, and especially in the null. hats in the null of a 57 are one of the ugliest things to hear, IMO.

super, hyper, it doesn't matter to me so much as long as what's in the null doesn't overwhelm the sound that i'm *intending* to capture.


cheers,
wade
 
HangDawg said:
I have no beyer mics. I may have to pick one up.
Click to expand...
Kool, like I said above, the Beyer M201 is my favorite snare mic. Two of my other favorite Beyer mics are the M88, and M160. Anyway, if you want to save a few bucks... keep an eye on ebay and etc for a good used M201. Good luck, Don
 
Richard Monroe said:
A supercardioid mic has a *wider* pickup pattern than a cardioid, with *greater* off-axis response....."Supercardioid" means "bigger than cardioid".-Richie
Click to expand...


Just incase a newbie is reading this and doesn't know that that was a joke (or incase it wasn't a joke, but I sure hope it was), I'd like to set the record straight. Both supercardioid and hypercardioid are narrower than cardioid. All three are created by mixing different amounts of Omni and Bi-polar. Cardioid is roughly a 50-50 mix of the two, supercardioid has a little more bi-polar (so it's narrower and has a little "tail" in the back) and hypercardioid has even more bi-polar. To see pictures, go here.


-Peter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top