Will a Great V/O Mic also be a Great Singing Mic?

[HD_Dude]

Hi everyone...great forum!

I do some radio work, as well as voice for web site tutorials, and on the side I record songs I've written.

I'd like to get a great microphone for voice-overs, which can also be used for singing.

My budget is below $1000.

And my question is...would the same characteristics that make a microphone excellent for recording voice work also make it excellent for recording singing?

I'd never need to use it live...rather, I'd be plugging it straight into either a Marantz 661 or my M-Box. Both have phantom power available.

My guitar work wouldn't be mic'ed, rather, I'd plug straight in using their onboard electronics.

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Richard Monroe]

The only answer you need is basically- Yes. Shure SM7b.-Richie

 

[mshilarious]

The PMD661 doesn't list a useful noise spec, but with a portable recorder that is always a concern. You also don't mention the type or voice or vocal. Given those factors as well as the SM7B's low sensitivity, you might want to investigate condenser microphones as well, although which one is a bit of a guess unless you can try them out.

 

[HD_Dude]

The only answer you need is basically- Yes. Shure SM7b.-Richie

The PMD661 doesn't list a useful noise spec, but with a portable recorder that is always a concern. You also don't mention the type or voice or vocal. Given those factors as well as the SM7B's low sensitivity, you might want to investigate condenser microphones as well, although which one is a bit of a guess unless you can try them out.

Thanks very much...

Yes, I've been interested in the SM7b...I'd like to try it out. The reviews are very solid. Thanks.

Also, the PMD661 is pretty darn quiet...I hear it's mic preamps are much better than its predecessor...

My voice is deep and powerful. I was on-air talent in television for 20 years, and was lucky enough to have received excellent voice training. I hit more range when singing of course, but I still have a lot of projection.

I was thinking the TLM 103...I owned one before, and liked it...but I can't help notice that when you research vocal microphones, the Shures and EV's come up far more often. So I'm wondering which way to go.

Thanks very much.

 

[darrin_h2000]

That Movie voice guy that died last year used that neumann 103...with an Avalon...Ive seen video of him working.

I have to say that I like my SM7 alot.

 

[Weasel9992]

See, I'm usually right on board with Darrin, but I absolutely hate the TLM 103. I have a buddy working at a studio in San Diego who uses it all the time for VO though, so go figure. I'd be inclined to stick with the SM7 or the EV RE-20...both optimized for voice, so they should (and do) sound fantastic on recorded vocals.

Frank

 

[pohaku]

Another vote for the SM7, although the RE-20 would work well too. A dynamic would probably be more forgiving for you than the TLM 103 if you don't have a really good treated recording space. FWIW, I too am not a fan of the TLM 103, although if you think it works well on your voice, it is probably worth trying - especially if you can return it if you don't like it.

 

[mshilarious]

Also, the PMD661 is pretty darn quiet...I hear it's mic preamps are much better than its predecessor...

I was thinking the TLM 103...I owned one before, and liked it...but I can't help notice that when you research vocal microphones, the Shures and EV's come up far more often. So I'm wondering which way to go.

The PMD661 might very well be very quiet, they just quote the spec in a manner that is difficult to analyze. Anyway, the SM7B is also very quiet, so this could be a critical spec. Or it might not be if you project as you say.

Since you are in DC, take your PMD661 to a pro audio store--any worth its salt will have an SM7B, RE20, and TLM103 laying around. Heck, most rental shops will have those three. Record VO and vocal to your PMD661, then take those recordings home and listen to them at your leisure. Maybe add a fourth or fifth mic if some strike your fancy.

Anything short of that is an educated guess (and those are well educated guesses). It might very well be you want different mics for VO and vocal, and can get both for your $1000 budget.

Note that the SM7B is very trendy, that's why you see all the recs--it's been here for some time because we listened many years ago when Harvey Gerst (resident guru) told us to try them. Over at other less reputable boards they seemed to have more recently caught the fever and recommend it for every use (symphony orchestra? SM7B! ) But it does happen to be very good at VO and male vocal.

Hey, maybe see if you can find a BCM104--nobody talks about that much, could just be a TLM103 bent in half, but it sure looks cool

 

[Supercreep]

Ev re-20 ftw

 

[darrin_h2000]

Over at other less reputable boards

Are you saying there are even less reputable boards?

The SM7 is a great mic for both singing and V/O work...and it wont break you.

 

[Ronan]

I think its safe to say that any mic that is great for VO will also be at least really good for singing, assuming that mic is a good match for the voice in questions.

The TLM 103 is a pretty controversial mic. Lots of varied opinions about it. My take is that its an OK mic and at that price point you should be getting great. In all the years I have been consulting for people about putting studios together I have never once recommended a TLM103

 

[HD_Dude]

I love the Shure sound...back in the '70's I recorded and performed for years using two trusty Unisphere A's....

And right now I'm using my company's SM58. Clients have commented on the SQ as being very good.

So I think the SM7 is a worthy contender. So is the RE20. I've used a 635A for years in television....but for TV work, there are different criteria.

Of course, considering their prices compared to the 103, I could get each and still have money left over for an attenuating microphone arm....

Thanks for the input. I'm also intrigued by a suggestion in another thread about Heil PR40....

 

[chessparov]

From my limited experience... (pro AE's like Ronan are much more authoritive!)

+1 on SM7, and RE20.

BTW IMHO the EV RE15 (or RE16) are also strong contenders, along with the Sennheiser MD421 (not the new one!) seem to be generally suggested for heavier voiced baritone and bass singers.

The funny thing is that a SM58 (or 57) could sound just as good (or better) on YOUR singing. The late Chuck Britz got fantastic tone working with Brian Wilson (or Mike Love)
on the Shure 545, with the Beach Boys recordings, FWIW.

Chris

P.S. HD, how do you like the EV 635a? I always thought it made me sound more like a "true"
tenor due to its low end frequency cut-and am really a baritone.

 

[HD_Dude]

From my limited experience... (pro AE's like Ronan are much more authoritive!)

+1 on SM7, and RE20.

BTW IMHO the EV RE15 (or RE16) are also strong contenders, along with the Sennheiser MD421 (not the new one!) seem to be generally suggested for heavier voiced baritone and bass singers.

The funny thing is that a SM58 (or 57) could sound just as good (or better) on YOUR singing. The late Chuck Britz got fantastic tone working with Brian Wilson (or Mike Love)
on the Shure 545, with the Beach Boys recordings, FWIW.

Chris

P.S. HD, how do you like the EV 635a? I always thought it made me sound more like a "true"
tenor due to its low end frequency cut-and am really a baritone.

Thanks for the input...I appreciate it!

The EV 635A was, in my 25 years on TV, the most heavilly-used microphone for TV news work. Reporter tracks, live shots, interviews, natural sound...you name it. It was all business, absolutely indestructible and found in every TV News Photographer's Porta-Brace run bag in every market in the nation. It was never intended to be a musical mic...you're right, it cut the low end, and that was quite effective. When a reporter's track was in the mix, it had to clearly cut through the ambient sound of the on-location video. In every market I worked in, I never saw a Shure. Always EV. But that was live truck - run and gun, get it on fast and right every time even in a hurricane work...not studio work. And man, that EV never let me down.

Quick question, and pardon my schizophrenia...how about the Neumann KMS 105? Known as a live performance mic...it seems to get rave reviews for vocals. Thoughts?

 

[chessparov]

Thanks HD for the 635a feedback. BTW Bob Ohlsson, a top AE, thinks they can be a great vocal mic if you run 'em through a high end pre.

I tried that Neumann out at a couple of NAMM conventions, and IMHO it's a nice sounding
condenser. Personally prefer vocal mics, however, with more forgiving "sweet spots" like
an Electro-Voice variable-D design or even a SM57. That way if you're a singer (like me)
who prefers to move their head now and then (think Stevie Wonder), it's all good.

A sleeper is also the Beyer M69, if you don't mind the narrow pattern.

Was actually more impressed with a couple of female vocalists I heard on it there than on the couple of male vocalists who sang through it. Kind of bright.

Chris

 

[mshilarious]

In every market I worked in, I never saw a Shure. Always EV.

Shure's ENG entry, the SM63, isn't anywhere near as durable as the 635a. It looks like something more like Bob Barker would have used c. 1980.

The usual Shure Unidyne suspects are not appropriate for outdoor work because they are not omni, and therefore are much more susceptible to wind noise.

 

[HD_Dude]

Shure's ENG entry, the SM63, isn't anywhere near as durable as the 635a. It looks like something more like Bob Barker would have used c. 1980.

The usual Shure Unidyne suspects are not appropriate for outdoor work because they are not omni, and therefore are much more susceptible to wind noise.

Interesting! Yes, pouring rain, even hurricanes, frigid cold, even blizzards, and scorching heat...nothing stopped the 635A's. Since reading the comments here I'm gaining a new appreciation of just what a remarkable piece of engineering this little mic really is.

You know, when you're recording your narration in a live truck, which in TV is known as 'cutting your tracks,' you don't have soundproofing, or silence...not even close. Sometimes the truck's generator would be on, sometimes cars would be driving by, etc. It was often very loud. But every day all across the country, photographers toss their reporter a 635A and a moment later say 'rolling.' And the sound always comes out great.

In fact, many of the track booths in TV newsrooms -- where reporters record their narrations if they're editing at the station and not in the live truck -- they're often equipped with EV 635A's also, to keep the sound signature constant with the sound gathered in the field.

 

[KineticSound]

That Movie voice guy that died last year used that neumann 103...with an Avalon...Ive seen video of him working.

Sorry, just pointing out the correction. Lafontaine used a Manley reference cardoid for voiceover. He may have done something on a 103 from time to time, but it was certainly not his usual mic.

As someone who also works in voiceover, I agree with most of the recommendations here. I think it's worth pointing out that there isn't a "best" choice... a good deal depends on what sound you're after. The SM-7 or RE-20 can give "that radio sound," especially nice if you have good projection and/or ambient sound issues. On the other hand, if you have a booth or otherwise well-treated space, a good condenser will give you more detail. I know plenty that like the TLM-103; the RODE NTK is also popular, and both would make excellent crossover mic's for singing.

Really, the only mic's I could think of that would be particularly ill-suited for sung vocals would be shotgun-style mic's, such as the MKH-416 or NTG-1. Aside from that, any good-quality dynamic or condenser should serve fine for both VO and music purposes.

 

[guitar486]

I think it's a little more accurate to say a good vocal mic will be a good voiceover mic, not necessarily vice-versa. If your budget is $1000 you might consider the Shure KSM44. That will give you more versatility than the SM7. You can find it new for $600 on this one DJ site, I can't remeber the name at the moment but I can post it when I get home if you like.

 

[darrin_h2000]

Sorry, just pointing out the correction. Lafontaine used a Manley reference cardoid for voiceover. He may have done something on a 103 from time to time, but it was certainly not his usual mic.
.

I have also seen him using the Manley too...but the 103 was being talked about in the thread.