why/when to color?

[artCROSS]

I'm still a newb at this, but i'm always trying to learn, so here's my next question:

Why do you want a mic to have "color", and when would you want to use it?

I've heard that many people consider this color to be nothing more then hi freq distortion. Anyways, I record mostly rock. Where would I use this color? guitar amp? vocals? The reason I bring this up now is b/c i'm considering upgrading to a "real pre". Ditching my art tube mp. I'm looking to spend $800, but can probably go up to $1000. Looking for a dual channel. Originally, I just wanted 2 really clean channels, but with all this talk of color, I don't know anymore. Also, I want something that can fit in a studio that charges $35/hr (eventually want to start one, but don't want to have to upgrade everything I own to do it). Currently, using firepod preamps for everything, so I want an upgrade from that.

So basically, would record drums w/ the firepod, OH w/ the new preamp, overdubs (guitars, bass, vocals) w/ the new preamp, acoustic guitar w/ the new pre. Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[chessrock]

All "color" means is that a piece of gear imparts something to the sound when used.

In the case of a mic pre, it just means that something is imparted other than just amplifying what's coming out of the mic. This sometimes (but not always) means some sort of distortion / harmonics, which could take the form of high frequency distortion, but could also take the form of low freq distortion, midband, or even broadband for that matter.

Other than that, there's really only two other ways that mic pres will affect the signal, usually; either the frequency response is altered (like you would with an EQ), or the slew rate (speed/responsiveness) is slowed down to the point that the detail and/or imaging is blurred or softened. Particularly on transients.

I certainly wouldn't feel the overwhelming need to rush out and buy something that has "color" because I read about it on a message board or a magazine. When you know that something specific has a sound that you like ... and you know what that sound is, and you haven't found anything else that can do it for you ... then that's when you start forkin' out the bucks. Unless, of course, you have some money to spare and you just like buying stuff. Buying stuff can be pretty fun. Collecting gear can be fun.

It's not unlike guitars. Different ones all have anywhere from slightly to drastically different tones. Only on a much smaller scale; as much hooplah as people make of it, most mic pres aren't a whole different from one another and colors tend to be a lot more subtle than switching out a guitar, for example.

 

[punkin]

if it didn't have color, how would you ever see it?

sorry, I couldn't resist.

yea...what chess said. I for one wouldn't mess with stuff that was advertised to "color" sounds until I had some practice and experience with "clean and neutral" gear. You'll be fighting the equipment. I would start by collecting clean/quality stuff at first...keep it simple.

 

[artCROSS]

argh, my girlfriend's cat just deleted my whole post...

anyways, the jist of it was:
Thanks guys, those posts helped out a lot. The guitar metaphor really made things clear. I still would like to upgrade my pres, however. I know it may be too soon, but I really would like to start a local studio for local talent out of my home. But I want a pre that could justify them paying $30-35/hr for. Could anyone point me in the direction of a clean, 2 channel pre for around $800? I'm not gonna be starting this thing now, or even w/in the next few years. I'm just looking ahead, and I want my next pre purchase to be something I wont' have to upgrade once I open up w/ that charging price.

Looking to record mainly rock groups. I wish there was a way I can audition pres in my room w/ my mics. Thanks again.

 

[ssscientist]

Here's one that I don't own but have heard and read good things about. It's within your price range even with the mic included!

 

[artCROSS]

That's very tempting. Actually, extremely tempting. But I was looking for something that has dual channels, as I do a lot of stereo recording, OH, double miking my amp, etc.

I was planning on upgrading my vocal mic though...

 

[In Tune Audio]

To add my two cents worth in, while changing the topic a little. As far as setting up to be a studio that charges "x" or whatever. First, as is mentioned on this forum all the time, focus on your skills and experience as much, if not more than the gear you are using. While you do want quality gear, and if people are paying good money to record with you, you need quality gear, but your skills with that gear will be more important than how much you spent on it.

And speaking from personnal experience, (I'm totally self employed, running two businesses), don't make your focus to be a studio that can charge $35 an hour. Make your focus to do a great job recording music, and to enjoy that. While making money is important, and will make you feel you've accomplished something, money and jobs in this area of work aren't in abundance. Gear costs a fortune, and most people won't know the difference, as long as it sounds good to them. What they will notice a difference in, is attitude of the person providing the service. Is this person looking at me as money, or that he's got stuff that allows him to do this and that, or is this guy that is recording me exciting about music, specifically my music and how he is going to work on it.


Sorry for the rant, just my 0.02.

Chuck

 

[artCROSS]

Chuck,
No, I absolutely agree with you. And I still have soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much more to learn before I can start a studio that costs x/hr. While I may be wrong in my thinking, I just wanted a piece of gear that would give me some headroom (pun not intended, but I guess it works). You know, something I could learn on, as well as apply to a future studio. I can afford to spend a little extra on gear, so I figured I might as well get something of high quality now, then by the time I have to record people with it, I would know it inside and out.

Sorry if I sounded shallow, or I was just in it to make the bucks. I'm actually just hoping to make a little over breaking even, as I'm still going to have another job if I open the studio. I just want some place where I can record my band for free, and justify owning it. Plus, ya never know, it may take off, and I could be doing what I love for a living...oh, to dream...

 

[chessrock]

I guess if you dream of recording rock bands, and want the kind of equipment that would hold up in a comercial studio setting, a good way to get started would be to get an API lunchbox; which you can add to over the years as you get more experience.

Other than that, there's always the usual suspects: John Hardy, Great River, etc. If you need multiple channels, then I think a Sytek would be a great investment; great-sounding ... and definitely something you'll find floating around a lot of nice studios.

 

[In Tune Audio]

Hey, I didn't think you sounded shallow or anything of that sort. Just everything you described, sounded like me when I was starting into recording. I just wanted to share some lessons that I had learned, and remind people to focus on the music, and the joy of making and capturing it.

Now a preamp suggestion. Its a little higher than your price range at this point, but look into the Focusrite ISA 428. 4 channels of a kick but pre, that I absoulutely love. In my still limited experience, its my favorite pre for acoustic instruments, ex. guitar, overheads, and such. And the optional AD card (I don't have it, but I want to get it soon) is apparently fantastic. Just a really cool unit to check out.

 

[artCROSS]

thanks ITA, i'll check that out. Does anybody here have any experience w/ the new neve that was just released? The portica? (portico?) It's a dual channel, around $1450. Saw a thread on here earlier about it, but wanted to know if anyone had any first hand experience with it.

 

[xstatic]

For the 1k range, I would seriously give the Toft Audio ATC-2 a look. Otherwise I would look into the Sytek preamps. The Focusrite ISA 428 would be another great starter preamp, but costs quite a bit more (but it does give you 4 decent channels). Any of those three pieces would be a purchase that you could keep no matter how much you upgrade the rest of your signal chain. The advantage of the Toft is that you get 2 channels of preamp, but you also get two channels of decent compression, and 2 awesome channels of EQ. That would give you the most sonic variance and possibilities than the other options listed. Make sure you look into tuning your rooms, and get at least one or two nice mics and a good solid set of monitors. Personally, I would look into Dynaudio monitors. I don't think you will find a better sounding monitor for anywhere close to its price. As far as mics go, maybe look into a SOundelux U195 (about $1100) or an AKG 414XL2 (about $900). One of each of those would be a great start to a mic cabinet that would include mics that you would probably never want to sell

 

[artCROSS]

xstatic,
Thanks, i'm very interested in the toft and the sytek. Currently, i'm only in the market for 2 channels, but the sytek is cheap, and has been getting great reviews. Have you heard/tried the focusrite twin track? I'm mostly interested in the pre section, but it comes with a bluebird mic, so I'm wondering if it's worth it, and will I be able to use it later on. Thanks.

 

[regebro]

I'm still a newb at this, but i'm always trying to learn, so here's my next question:

Why do you want a mic to have "color", and when would you want to use it?

basically, all mics, with the possibe exception of earthworks mics, have color. They just have a different color. Choose the mic that fits best.

Start out with an SM57 and a good condenser and you can get pretty far.

 

[Kevin Deschwazi]

xstatic,
Thanks, i'm very interested in the toft and the sytek. Currently, i'm only in the market for 2 channels, but the sytek is cheap, and has been getting great reviews. Have you heard/tried the focusrite twin track? I'm mostly interested in the pre section, but it comes with a bluebird mic, so I'm wondering if it's worth it, and will I be able to use it later on. Thanks.

I don't think any of the Focusrite platinum stuff would be enough of a step up to bother with. I've not used the ART MP but I used to own a Focusrite Penta and it wasn't anything to get excited about. I can't imagine it being a huge improvement over anything. They're fine for someone just starting out on a budget but as an 'upgrade I can't help thinking you'd be disappointed.

I'm saving for the ISA 428 myself so it's always good to see it bigged up.

Edit: Oh, and you spell it colour.

 

[artCROSS]

ahhh, i just figured out the only reason the twintrak cost 1k is b/c of the bluebird mic it includes. Last pre question: what do you think of the RNP? I'm leaning heavily toward the Sytek b/c I wanna try and stay under the 1k, and the toft, but the rnp's very attractive price is looking great. I have a feeling, though, that it will be the same case as the twintrack,that it won't be much of an upgrade. (upgrading from firepod's pres)

 

[xstatic]

Personally, I have not been impressed with any of the Focusrite Platinum series stuff. I think it is worth just about what it costs, so isn't really a bad choice. They offer a good feature set, combined with what I consider a fairly dull and mediocre sound quality when compared to a lot of the gear that is priced just higher than the Focusrite's. The ISA (blue) series is a different story all together. Even the red series stuff is pretty nice. The RNp is certainly a very fairly priced preamp for the quality it exhibits. However, I find that the Syteks offer a lot more than the RNP's in terms of depth and clarity. In reality, the Syteks per channel cost is not a lot more than something like the RNP. I am not sure just exactly where the Toft's preamp would fall, but having a nice EQ and a usable compressor at the same time gives you the ability to further change your sound which gives the ATC-2 much more value in my opinion.