Why does everybody hate direct boxes here?

  • Thread starter Thread starter killthepixelnow
  • Start date Start date
Re-amplify.

It's when you record a signal direct from your guitar so that you can feed it into your amp later. That way, you can worry about getting the performance right first, then worry about getting the right tone later.

I have a client with a one of a kind, hand built guitar rig. (4 heads, all different) The rig sounds great, but it is about 15 years old and a little finicky. Getting the sound and mic placement is a long process, and takes up my drum room until all the guitars for the are done.

What we do is get the performances with a pod or something (also recording a direct track) and once everything is done, we set up the big rig and just send all the tracks through it. That way, it only takes up my room for a day or so, instead of a couple weeks. You also don't have to worry about the amp not sounding the same when you do punch-ins a day later.
 
I still don't understand, really. What's the point in recording something and the return to the amp? It doesn't make sense to me.

"Record a signal direct from your guitar and feed your amp later"

Is it something like this:

Guitar > Mixer > Amp > Mic > Mixer?

When does the distortion box comes to play?
 
killthepixel said:
I still don't understand, really. What's the point in recording something and the return to the amp? It doesn't make sense to me.

"Record a signal direct from your guitar and feed your amp later"
If you record something mic'ed, and it doesn't sit well in the mix because of the tone, and if you want the same notes with a different tone to fix it, the guy has to play it again. If you record it clean and then send the recorded signal to the amp and mic THAT, you can fix it by just sending the same clean track to a different amp, or whatever. It's not righter or wronger than any other way of doing things, it's just a different approach.
 
'Cause direct boxes raped my dog,burned my crops and brought a plague to my people,that's why! :mad:
 
Interesting, and it seems very usefull too. Wen you say clean you mean without any effect on it? I ask this beacuse I play with a distortion box. Where is the best place in the chain to put it? Thanks.
 
killthepixel said:
When does the distortion box comes to play?
If you have a good amp, you don't need the distortion box.

Reamping is so that you can record a different sound later.
 
killthepixel said:
Interesting, and it seems very usefull too. Wen you say clean you mean without any effect on it? I ask this beacuse I play with a distortion box. Where is the best place in the chain to put it? Thanks.
If you are reamping, you don't want to record the distortion box on the DI track.

If you want to use the distortion box later, for reapming, just plug it between your recorder and the amp.
 
killthepixel said:
"Record a signal direct from your guitar and feed your amp later"

Is it something like this:

Guitar > Mixer > Amp > Mic > Mixer?

When does the distortion box comes to play?

When he said "later", he meant ....you know.....physically later. Like a certain amount of time later.
Not later in the signal chain.
 
You're right man, a good distortion comes from the amp itself. Mine is a cheap Crate but I'm thinking in changing it as soon as I have the money.
 
Buy a Radial Direct Box they are very very nice or use a great preamp for one if it has 1/4 inputs for guitar :D
 
"All ways lead to Rome"
Think is very true, I had an idea on my mind and now I have different approaches to record it. All this reamping thing sounds cool, I'll put in practice when I have the oportunity. I'd like to know if you have a particular way to record guitars and if you use any specific gear to this purpouse. I'll appreciate to a little diagram so I can understand it better. Something like:

EQ > Compressor > Guitar > Amp > Mixer > PC​

Thank to all!!!
 
metalhead28 said:
When he said "later", he meant ....you know.....physically later. Like a certain amount of time later.
Not later in the signal chain.
That's right. I meant later, like next week.

In fact, if you record a clean DI signal, next year when you get a new amp, you can run the DI track through the new amp and remix the song.
 
"If you have a good amp, you don't need the distortion box."

I'm not an advocate of amp sims etc, but I'd argue that a good amp doesn't mean a distortion pedal is unnecessary. A distortion pedal is just like any other part of your signal chain, if adding it in front of your $5,000 stack sounds better to you, use it.

Oh, and I've never heard of re-amping before. Sounds like a cool technique, I'll have to start giving that a try.
 
darrvid said:
"If you have a good amp, you don't need the distortion box."

I'm not an advocate of amp sims etc, but I'd argue that a good amp doesn't mean a distortion pedal is unnecessary. A distortion pedal is just like any other part of your signal chain, if adding it in front of your $5,000 stack sounds better to you, use it.

Oh, and I've never heard of re-amping before. Sounds like a cool technique, I'll have to start giving that a try.
The best way is with an active DI on the way in and a passive one on the way out to the amp.
 
i never thought of how funny it would be to reamp a guitar track when testing out different amps at stores
 
treymonfauntre said:
i never thought of how funny it would be to reamp a guitar track when testing out different amps at stores

That would be pretty rad. Just drop the .wav file on an mp3 player and run it through the reamp box. It would be hilarious to do it with some cheesy wanking guitar solo.
 
I love direct boxes. But it's purely platonic. :D

They are one of those must-haves in anything resembling a decent project studio.
 
Yo Pixel! I'll take a shot at this. First, let me state that I have nothing whatsoever against DI boxes, they just aren't generally for recording a guitar. They are often used for live input of an acoustic pickup into a mic input on a PA, for recording bass or keyboards into a mic input, or for recording a dry (unprocessed ) guitar track for re-amping. Let's deal with re-amping a ways into this.

First, for over 40 years, electric guitars have been recorded by slightly (or greatly) overloading the tubes in the preamp section of a guitar amplifier, and then sticking one or more mics in front of (or behind) that amp, and recording them. First, this creates the unique sound of tube saturation, and the unique sound of moving air impacting a microphone's diaphragm or ribbon. Most engineers agree that this sound *cannot* be produced by any amp modeler, software, solid state amp, direct box,distortion pedal, or *anything* else.

Secondly, for clean (little or no distortion) sounds, a solid state amp can often work very well. Not everybody lives by distortion. In general, this holy grail guitar sound is achieved not by using any form of distortion device, but merely by cranking the living bejesus out of the amp. Hence, small amps are often used in studios, as cranking a Marshall stack in a small room will test the limits of the room, and your ears. Often, in fact, the amp and its mics are in a different room altogether than the guitarist. The amp may be used in combination with many different types of pedals, including distortion pedals.

Many amps have a line output. This adjusts the impedence of the instrument input to match a line level input before the signal hits the poor overloaded preamp and distorts like a mother. This allows you to run that unprocessed signal back later into one or more amps, and put mics in front of *them*. That way, you can hear what it would have sounded like if you had played it through a Mesa, a Vox, Soldano, or whatever, if you have those amps available. In some cases, the engineer may use a mixture of 2 or more amps, and may delay one a couple of milliseconds to add depth. Many engineers re-amp when the guitarist insists on using his Crate.

In recent years, amp modeling has produced a different breed of DI box, which attempts to shape the tone of the guitar signal to come closer to the sound of that cranked up, mic'd up, amp. These devices are in their infancy, and they don't do what they claim to do, but they are getting better every day. Some people, even ones that don't like amp modelers, will use them for practising late at night, when they don't want to wake up the baby, or will take one for a traveling headphone amp. Other people are on the bleeding edge, and are experimenting with producing actually usable sounds with them.

I split the difference. I run amp modelers into power amps and cabs or powered speakers, or even reference monitors, and mic up the speakers. This gives me that moving air sound into a real mic, and comes *much* closer, IMHO, to the sound of the amp being simulated. I will admit, however, that the sounds I need are mostly clean, so I'm not nearly as concerned with tube saturation as most folks.

So there it is. Why do people hate your DI box? They don't. What they hate is the sound of an electric guitar with a distortion pedal recorded through a DI box. You will find that for most professional guitarists, and most professional audio engineers, there is only *one* way to record an electric guitar. You plug it into an amp, crank the shit out of the amp, and put one or more mics in front of it. Nothing else will produce the sound they are looking for, and they *don't* want some *other* sound.

So why do I use amp simulators? Because I can't afford a 1964 Marshal JTM-45 or a Dumble Special Overdrive. I have found, though, that jacking simulators into real amps and speakers, and mic'ing them up, helps a lot. My advice is- if you insist on recording guitar direct (I'M SORRY, IT'S THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT), get an amp simulator. It won't sound like a mic'd up tube amp, but it will sound better than your DI box, and will give you access to a lot more sounds. If you like your distortion pedal, turn the drive on your amp modeler all the way down, and patch the pedal into the signal chain. Or you can try a combination of drive from the pedal and the amp model. As far as amp simulators, Behringer Vamp II wins in the most bang for cheap department. Pod or Pod Pro produces some useful sounds, and the newer XT version is more versatile than the older 2.0. Vox Tonelab is the current state of the art. I assure you, it will be obsolete in 3 years. Modeling technology is exploding, and eventually, I believe it will do what it intends to do. For right now, top notch guitar sound is achieved using mics, and amps with vacuum tubes.-Richie
 
The only thing I can add to Richard, is that the speakers you use, are part of the sound, and that is what the DI eliminates.
 
That is very true. When I use a Pod into a Marshall cab with a Celestion vintage 30, I use "live" mode, which disables the cab model. I don't need a digital model of a 2X10 or whatever fighting with my real 1X12. At other times, I use a 100 watt Fender wedge monitor, a PA, or even powered studio reference monitors (without the power amp- duh). When I do that, I use "studio" mode, which engages the cab model. Because monitors, live or studio,and PA's are flatter, more broad spectrum speakers, they need the cab model to approach the character of a guitar speaker. I use an amp modeler routinely, but I haven't recorded direct in years.-Richie
 
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