...why do I want a patchbay...

They're EXTREMELY usefull for bringing all the connections of things you want to patch to a central location so you don't have to crawl behind a rack to change something. I have all my compressors, effects, outputs of mic preamps and direct outs, buss outs and main outs and inputs to the multitrack (and computer) from my console all brought up in the patch bays. I can patch and re-patch any source to any destination and put any processor in any chain at will. I have six patchbays and can't imagine life in the studio without them.
 
I've kind of wondered this too, and I still need convincing that I need one.
With my DAW, I can route any input, to any track/channel, to any output.

I guess the point is to be able to route say, the mic pre's that go to the live room, over into the drum room???
 
Michael Jones said:
I've kind of wondered this too, and I still need convincing that I need one.
With my DAW, I can route any input, to any track/channel, to any output.

I guess the point is to be able to route say, the mic pre's that go to the live room, over into the drum room???
Click to expand...

Well, yes and no. The point is that the mic pres should not go to "a room". The point is that you want to be able reroute anything to anything without having to grope blindly behind your rack.

If all you have is a DAW and two preamps, no then you don't need a patchbay.
 
regebro said:
Well, yes and no. The point is that the mic pres should not go to "a room". The point is that you want to be able reroute anything to anything without having to grope blindly behind your rack.

If all you have is a DAW and two preamps, no then you don't need a patchbay.
Click to expand...
Well, I have more than 2 pre's. But what's wrong with say, having 4 pre's hard wired to the live room, 6 to the drum room, and 2 to the vocal booth? (All outboard pre's) Why would I ever need to change that?
 
Because you some day may find that you want that 7th mic in the drum room, or 8 mics in the live room, and so on. And what do you do when you want to use the Tube MP on something in the drum room, when it's permanently connected to the live room?

And why have four connectors in the live room that are permanently connected to mic pres? Then you can never use these connections for anything else than mic pres, which means that instead of having say 4 connections to the live room you need 4 non-mic pre connections and 4 mic pre connections, which means that you now suddenly have to have double the amount of cables anywhere for no obious reason.

So the whole idea of having a fixed set of mic preamps for each room, although not really wrong, its' well, strange. Really, really strange.
 
regebro said:
...So the whole idea of having a fixed set of mic preamps for each room, although not really wrong, its' well, strange. Really, really strange.
Click to expand...
I see your point.
But if 95% of your tracking is done with 6 (or 8) mics on the drum kit, and your drum room is dedicated to drums, is it really worth it for the odd occassion that you might want to do something different??
I can see the added benefit of being able to "switch" pre's for the other 2 rooms.
 
Michael Jones said:
I see your point.
But if 95% of your tracking is done with 6 (or 8) mics on the drum kit, and your drum room is dedicated to drums, is it really worth it for the odd occassion that you might want to do something different??
Click to expand...

IMO, yes. Because it's really not much more expensive or complicated to set up. You don't lose anything by using patchbays.
 
I know I'd prefer visual 'hardware' patching over virtual software patching. It's like mixing with the mouse: everything can and will go faster and easier with hands-on, visual stimuli. That's just the way our brain (at least mine ;) ) works.

Herwig
 
regebro said:
IMO, yes. Because it's really not much more expensive or complicated to set up. You don't lose anything by using patchbays.
Click to expand...
Except for another set of connections to run through.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91619
Surely good quality bays don't degrade.(?)
I'm still doing without, using my converter interface breakout snakes for most of my patch points, but my setup is modest and I have room to get in behind the mixer and rack shelf for set-ups. Works out well as is.
:D
Wayne
 
Michael,

For what you are building I would definitely go TT. You get a LOT more connections in the same amount of space.
Check out the homerecording article about patchbays here:
http://www.homerecording.com/patchbay.html

Here's another pretty good article too.
http://www.jimmyether.com/rec/tips/studiowiring.html

and for good measure, here's another one.
http://www.apocalypse.org/~matthew/resources/rackwire/patchbay.html

I would suggest that if you really want to do this visit a local studio that has one and talk to them about their patchbay. The last studio I built I installed 6 48 point bays (24 X 2 on each of them) and it took me about two solid weeks to get everything wired up and checked out working part time. It's tedious to do but well worth the trouble. It also takes your studio up another notch toward the "pro" facility because as Track Rat stated you don't have to crawl around behind everything to hook something up.
If you need help with it Michael PM me. I helped another guy here on the forum out a few months ago. It's easy to do if you lay it out in Excel.
How's your place coming by the way? I haven't been over to John's site lately to check on your progress although I did see your doors! Very cool...
 
Michael Jones said:
OK, fair enough.
I'll use a patch bay.
Normaled, half-normaled, balanced.....?
1/4"?, TT?
What?
Click to expand...

You of course need a patchbay where you can switch the normalling (and I would get one where you can do it without soldering or pulling the patchbay out of the rack).

Balanced seems reasonable, they aren't that more expensive.

All other parts are a matter of taste. for the typical small bedroom studio, I'd get something that uses 1/4" jacks front and rear. This one seems good:
http://www.furmansound.com/pro/pb/pb1.htm

For more permanent installations soldered patchbays makes sense, and then TT jacks is a possibility if you want to save space.
 
Re: Michael,

MikeA said:
For what you are building I would definitely go TT. You get a LOT more connections in the same amount of space.
Check out the homerecording article about patchbays here:
http://www.homerecording.com/patchbay.html

Here's another pretty good article too.
http://www.jimmyether.com/rec/tips/studiowiring.html

and for good measure, here's another one.
http://www.apocalypse.org/~matthew/resources/rackwire/patchbay.html

...If you need help with it Michael PM me. I helped another guy here on the forum out a few months ago. It's easy to do if you lay it out in Excel.
How's your place coming by the way? I haven't been over to John's site lately to check on your progress although I did see your doors! Very cool...
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the info Mike. I'll need to peruse it and digest it all.
How do you layout audio connections in excel??

Currently, I have 24 channels available; of course, I can always expand that. I'm sure I'll need more help, so thanks for the offer.

The place is comming along well. The masons are hard at work, and as soon as they're done, the electricians will move right in and do their thing, followed by the A/C guy. There's a lot going on right now, but its all kind of out of my hands for the time being.
(Which is a good feeling!)

I did an update at John's site a few weeks ago... new pics there if you haven't seen 'em yet.

regebro - I'm not really talking about a small bedroom studio.
I'm building a 1200 s.f. facility with dedicated control room, 2 iso's and a main / live room. (Full kitchen and half bath too.)
Constrtuction pics as "Carriage House Recording" at John's site.
I have channels set in the foundation for cable routing from the console to a wall plate in each room as well.

- Thanks for the advice.
 
Re: Re: Michael,

Michael Jones said:
I did an update at John's site a few weeks ago... new pics there if you haven't seen 'em yet.
Click to expand...

What is the address to John's site?
 
I have both 1/4" and tt patchbays and I really like the 1/4" better. it's handy to be able to just plug line level sources right into the bay without needing a special cord.

BTW, anyone selling any tt cables or connectors? Email me please.
 
I just got my patchbay a few months back. How did I ever live without it? Just very convenient and clean (i.e no wires all over the place) for hooking things up.

One warning, the cables to hook up all your devices is going to run you another $50-$100.

The normaled vs 1/2 normaled thing varies and actually some of my channels are full and some 1/2. Like the mains, sometimes I don't want my mixer on while I'm listening to computers tracks so I 1/2 normaled those channels. When I pull the board links the routing falls over directly to my speakers.

The other channels are just direct passes for the ins and outs of my rack. How you arrange all this depends on what you need done.
 
Having a good path panel setup allows for much more than routing cables thru walls. It's nice to have your boards aux channels in the patch bay as well as your efx. It's nice to have inserts and returns on the patch bay near the efx units also in the bay. Sidechains and keys from compressors and gates are great to have on your patchbay as well.

Get a balanced patch bay. I have good success with neutrik. You need a shitload of balanced cables to hook everything up on both sides. Measure your runs for the patch side and get an assortment of longer and shorter cables, or make em. The cost of the cabling will surpass the cost of the patch bays if you have much equipment.

Not having to dope around on the back side of your console and rack gear is very, very awesome.
 
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