why can't I master my own stuff?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fenix
  • Start date Start date
bah I never said that software plug-ins were better, I just said that they can make a mix a lot better then leaving it a raw mix.
 
...talking about doing good production. Let's face it, we ALL need to work on our tracking and mixing skills. We improve on those, mastering becomes just a "tad" of polish to an already outstanding mix!
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sounusman,

Currently I totally believe in your very positive quote above as well as items #3, #4 and #6 which are:

3 - "Mastering" at home can be a good learning tool.

4 - Having a "pro" master your material would be an excellent learning tool.

6 - Indeed, these software "mastering tools" are a far cry better than what was available to a guy even 5 years ago.
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This is exactly my current roadmap and focus! :cool:
kylen

PS: Seeing that fenix opened this thread maybe he'll come in here and state whether or not his original question is answered. If so then possibly people can go on to starting different threads to focus on some specifics of mastering or mixing if they wish.

For me the answer begs a slightly different question but is something 'Joe Meek-ish' like - "When it sounds finished, it is finished". I would add also that if the expected audience is only you - then it must please you. If you expect other people to listen then it must be listenable to them also. Get opinions, if you like it and other people like it then fine. If people tell you it needs something else and you can tweak it then fine, otherwise if you're stuck - get help. Then do it better next time if you can, etc. In between the next better result you may spend some amount of time, acquire some amount of knowledge, and spend some amount of money. Ha Ha - you can quote me on that !
 
The Seifer said:
I just said that they can make a mix a lot better then leaving it a raw mix.
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I gotta tell you, maybe not! I have heard some pretty atrocious attempts at "sweetening". Guys far more obsessed with making it "loud" and "punchy" who totally screwed up the sonic integrity of their mixes.

I have turned down mastering jobs on projects because I didn't feel that the plugin's would offer an improvement that made charging for it a fair deal with the client. Yes, I could have made it louder, but I didnt' feel that I could bring to life the mixes in a way that a more capable gear list could. So I sent them elsewhere.

I can safely say this, many of you are relying upon the "sweetening" part of mastering far too much. Most of you have all the time you want to mix something, yet I hear few mixes that are done well! Most of you have all the time you want to track the sounds, yet I hear few songs tracked well.

GIGO. Mastering can't fix everything.

Ed
 
sonusman said:
I don't think we need to keep fanning the flames. One guy on here who seems to be more than willing to keep doing so mixes on a fucking MACKIE!!! and is talking crap to a guy who thinks his T-Racks is just as good as GML/Manley/Weiss, etc....I would call that a wash in the whole of things.
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Hmmm.... funny though - a mackie-guy has already proven many times over that he makes the gear work for him, while the T-Racks-guy hasn't....

And I haven't seen any mackie-guy "talking crap" -- I've seen a mackie-guy correct a lot of misinformation and raise the points that you yourself have echoed.
 
sonusman said:
I gotta tell you, maybe not! I have heard some pretty atrocious attempts at "sweetening". Guys far more obsessed with making it "loud" and "punchy" who totally screwed up the sonic integrity of their mixes.

I have turned down mastering jobs on projects because I didn't feel that the plugin's would offer an improvement that made charging for it a fair deal with the client. Yes, I could have made it louder, but I didnt' feel that I could bring to life the mixes in a way that a more capable gear list could. So I sent them elsewhere.

I can safely say this, many of you are relying upon the "sweetening" part of mastering far too much. Most of you have all the time you want to mix something, yet I hear few mixes that are done well! Most of you have all the time you want to track the sounds, yet I hear few songs tracked well.

GIGO. Mastering can't fix everything.

Ed
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BEFORE

AFTER

I think it sounds 'better'.
 
Yeah, but Bruce, I usually display patience in dealing with you concerning how you make your Hackie console "work for you", yet you keep insisting that it will do just fine. I guess I could call you an ignorant moron because you won't upgrade your console, which REALLY in my opinion would be a service to the people you charge money for your service. But I don't call you an ignorant moron.

T-Racks can do as good of a job for mastering as your Hackie can do for mixing, easily! Why don't your upgrade your Hackie to a Neotek, DDA, Harrison, Amek Big? Why because you cannot justify the cost right now, and the Hackie is working well enough for you. T-Racks fits that same criteria for many around here Bruce.

Don't fan the flames. You made your point quite well long ago in this thread. But now you are looking rediculous in this thread when resorting to the name calling crap. I don't care who even started it. Be a pro and leave it be. You don't have to call this guy a moron for you to be right. You also don't need to call this guy a moron so as to "correct bad information". Often, I think you are possibly just missing his point. I don't particularily like how he is making his point either, but this thread isn't doing anything but going into the garbage from the flames being flamed!

Peace Bruce.

Ed
 
The Seifer said:
BEFORE

AFTER

I think it sounds 'better'.
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The "after" one just sounds louder.It doesnt have the least bit more definition or clarity and detail to it than the original.In fact the original file(which sounds better IMHO)retains way more clarity and detail while the "after" mix sounds pumped to the max with steroids,almost to the point of distortion.

Making a mix louder is not mastering.
 
I usually display patience in dealing with you concerning how you make your Hackie console "work for you"
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Hmmm - not sure what you mean exactly by this statement, but I'm not going to duke it out with you... nothing says we have to agree on all points, all the time!

I've been consistent in the way I post pretty much from day one and make no apologies for it - if someone's being unreasonably dense, I will call them on it. Period. No one else has to like it, but they can always choose to ignore me...

After all - my opinion is simply that of one person.... on the face of it, no more or less valid than any other's....

And as far as gear upgrades go - I do have a budget and business plan to follow, as opposed to letting people here dictate when my gear is or isn't working for me. (But if anyone wants to invest in Blue Bear Sound - I'd be happy to let them have greater input on gear selection at that point! ;) )

And incidently - a console upgrade IS in the works - for next April time-frame if all goes well... still planning on a Sony Baby Oxford...

Peace Ed
 
Kramer said:
The "after" one just sounds louder.It doesnt have the least bit more definition or clarity and detail to it than the original.In fact the original file(which sounds better IMHO)retains way more clarity and detail while the "after" mix sounds pumped to the max with steroids,almost to the point of distortion.

Making a mix louder is not mastering.
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Well I didn't master it then. I made it less dull and a little more punchy.
 
sonusman said:
I see you are from Wisconsin. Interesting. I won a mastering job from a client about 3 years ago from there who already had his CD mastered from a guy that did "big label" mastering. This client sent me this "mastering" job this guy did. It was freakin' horrible!!! WAY too much low end, and so overly compressed and lmited that you could HEAR all sorts of bad artifacts from it. This is just what I noticed before hearing the source tracks. This "mastering engineer" with his "big label" experience had all the cool "toys", yet did a freakin' horror job on it. Charged my client about $700! I "mastered" his CD at half the price using "budget" gear and a low end DAW with plugin's, and the client was very satisfied with the results.

So, I guess I didn't do Mastering, like you say, but my "mastering" job sure beat the hell out of this other guys.

Ed
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Just kind of proves the point, sweeting is fine, but real mastering take experience, plus the room speakers and tools. Who did the "mastering" by the way? as far as I know the nearest Mastering house is in Chicago.
 
sonusman said:
Yeah, but Bruce, I usually display patience in dealing with you concerning how you make your Hackie console "work for you", yet you keep insisting that it will do just fine. I guess I could call you an ignorant moron because you won't upgrade your console, which REALLY in my opinion would be a service to the people you charge money for your service. But I don't call you an ignorant moron.

T-Racks can do as good of a job for mastering as your Hackie can do for mixing, easily! Why don't your upgrade your Hackie to a Neotek, DDA, Harrison, Amek Big? Why because you cannot justify the cost right now, and the Hackie is working well enough for you. T-Racks fits that same criteria for many around here Bruce.

Don't fan the flames. You made your point quite well long ago in this thread. But now you are looking rediculous in this thread when resorting to the name calling crap. I don't care who even started it. Be a pro and leave it be. You don't have to call this guy a moron for you to be right. You also don't need to call this guy a moron so as to "correct bad information". Often, I think you are possibly just missing his point. I don't particularily like how he is making his point either, but this thread isn't doing anything but going into the garbage from the flames being flamed!

Peace Bruce.

Ed
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this is pretty much exactly my feelings too, but I am sure Bruce could really give a shit what I think. I find the inconsistancies of using his "hackie" and being a pro [all the time] just one of many....only to be augmented by all the name calling he does. Truely the mark of an non-professional by any means. I have no "chip on my shoulder" to him, but like he says himself; quote/bluebear....I've been consistent in the way I post pretty much from day one and make no apologies for it - if someone's being unreasonably dense, I will call them on it. Period. No one else has to like it, but they can always choose to ignore me... Nice attitude, chump. Just what this board needs. A self appointed moderator that thinks his pedistal is higher than eveyone elses. If you choose to disagree...hey..just ignore him! But hey!!...he knows when you are "unreasonably dense"... so it is your loss...yeah..right!!. Oh...this is about where he would use the :rolleyes: icon, I suppose too.

It is crap like this that has led me away from these forums. It is "morons" like BlueBear that has made these forums the "kiddy playground" that they have become.


oh....your *encouragement* to Seiffer to give up is just *priceless*.
 
FYI
 

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Re: hmmmmm....

sonicpaint said:
Did this thread go to the shits? I think so..........:D
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that's right... and reading Ed's reply tells you why...didn't it?
 
The Seifer said:
you can link images using bbcode BTW
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You can't if the image is on your hard drive and not on the web somewhere.......
 
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