Why Analog?

[Dr ZEE]

I guess I did originate this specific phrase "if only the horse would drink".


Regards, Ethan

RIGHT!!!! That's what I'm talking about ..."this specific one"
May I try my version, which is a bit (or a lot ) more "encoded", here:
"Molly said: "No."

 

[Tim Gillett]

Maybe this will help to clarify my frustration with digital's "0 point": my primary instrument is percussion, and at least in my limited experience most percussive instruments have challenging transient peaks and analog (subjectively) handles them much more to my satisfaction than digital...unless I'm "printing" to digital using dynamics processing to try and manage those peaks (and if I were to shoot for average levels close to 0 the processing would have to be pretty aggressive which feels very limiting to me, no pun intended) I have to record well below 0 to avoid clipping and then I'm missing out on taking advantage of available bit depth and I'm closer to the noise floor of the rest of the system...tracking at 0 ~ +3 average levels compared to -10 is significant to me. I'm not trying to argue about what's better, I'm just bring an application issue to the table here that hasn't come up in this discussion that is a real-world issue for me in my neck of the woods.

]

Maybe analog tape handles the transients better for you because you like the way it modifies percussive sounds. Many people still do, including those with top digital recording gear. Earlier this year I serviced a 1/2" 8 track machine for a guy with a very well equipped home studio. He prefers to track his drum kit to analog tape.
At 24 bits ( today a common level for even home digital recording) the digital quantisation noise is well below the best analog converter noise and so is inaudible.
Again, no need to record as hot as with analog. But again if you prefer the hot analog tape sound with drums, you're in good company. Many do.

Cheers Tim

 

[Tim Gillett]

That's the thing. Plenty of people have given you plenty of reasons for this preference .... yet you just don't want to hear them I guess.

The point in my post you highlighted was about noise. I said, quite correctly, that analog tape adds significant noise unless you use NR.

Some people still use analog tape for all sorts of reasons, and yes, many of those reasons, some serious, some perhaps trivial, have been listed here.
I dont question that. Again, I was trying to correct misinformation about digital.

In any case, if your reason for still using analog tape is due to wrong information about digital, no one's going to come to your home and order you to stop using analog. It's a free country.

Cheers Tim

 

[Dr ZEE]

... trying to correct misinformation about digital.

Cheers Tim

... (with)....digital..you actually have much more headroom ...

Cheers Tim

Bravo! Bravo! Bravissiomo!

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... Maybe analog tape handles the transients better for you because you like the way it modifies percussive sounds.

Cory (Sweetbeats) said what he said, grrrrrrrrr !!!!!
Here's what he said:
1. most percussive instruments have challenging transient peaks
2. analog (subjectively) handles transient peaks much more to my satisfaction than digital...
He is talking about "HANDLING transient peaks!!!!!!!"
There's no freaking "SOUND" per say past the microphone.
Acoustic Transient (as component of an acoustic sound) > MICROPHONE > Voltage Spike (as component of AC electrical signal).
Roughly speaking, In the "system" as a compnent of AC electrical signal (NOT the SOUND!) they (transient peaks, that is) prety much are nothing more and nothing less than voltage spikes, and they have to be dealt with - HANDLED that is. It has nothing to do with "modification of sound" by analog tape.

oh, boy....

 

[Dr ZEE]

BTW, the EAR dealing with transients all the time and does it very well. If it was not, then all you would hear from a low energy source - clicks and scratches and from a high enregy source you would not hear a thing, but rather feel needle sharp pain.

 

[Tim Gillett]

Test - take a complex source (music) record it with the peaks 30 dB under the max (0dBFS and 0VU) on a digital and tape system. Now play it back with that 30 dB made up in the amp gain.

Ethan, I wont try and comment on all you said but since you are focussing in on real world results and only on signal to noise/distortion issues here, the above seems a good test as you say.

What is the standard of the analog recorder, the digital recorder?

For analog, what sort of tape, at what flux level for 0VU, which track width, which tape speed? NR or not? Which type of NR?

For digital, which bit rate? Which converters?

Cheers Tim