Whos the better Drummer?

[rocky outcrop]

so the police wern't together befor their first album I think not.
to old to play I dont think they could play in the first place.
you could say the same about any of the police albums but then you would be telling lies. look stu is pretty good but he has no attitude and is a bit arty and we can never get away from the fact that he played with sting when any sane person would left their fist print in his face.

 

[elevate]

so the police wern't together befor their first album I think not.

Huh?

to old to play I dont think they could play in the first place.

You really think nobody in the Doors could play?

you could say the same about any of the police albums but then you would be telling lies.

Oh, I see.

I think you've sufficiently made your point.

 

[bingbing]

look stu is pretty good but he has no attitude and is a bit arty and we can never get away from the fact that he played with sting when any sane person would left their fist print in his face.

No attitude? Arty?

You obviously have not really paid attention to the Police. I recall a videotaped concert performance where Stuart had duct taped the words "F*** you C**t" (or something similar) on his toms, in huge letters. I would consider that an example of attitude, as if I care whether or not he has it. Furthermore, the guys in the Police did get into some fisticuffs with each other occasionally. If by "arty", you mean someone who actually bothered to study indigenous african rhythms, as well as composed orchestral music, then O.K., fine by me.

I'm glad to know who you prefer between the two drummers. Rock on.

bing-
bing

 

[sheppard]

copeland for sure.

 

[rocky outcrop]

yeah ok your right copland is by far the better drummer and the police were a great band but I still think they stink and their music is just like an enema to me.I do think that they were together befor their first album how else would it have been writen. And yeah i think that the doors were shit players Ive heard organ grinders that had more talent and befor you ask iim glad what his name is dead.Oh and fuck and cunt realy show attitude what does it mean what context was it in attitude is not the same as shock value.Oh any way I just an Australian drummer and being on the underside of the world may have me thinking all topsy turvy.

 

[bingbing]

yeah ok your right copland is by far the better drummer and the police were a great band but I still think they stink and their music is just like an enema to me.I do think that they were together befor their first album how else would it have been writen. And yeah i think that the doors were shit players Ive heard organ grinders that had more talent and befor you ask iim glad what his name is dead.Oh and fuck and cunt realy show attitude what does it mean what context was it in attitude is not the same as shock value.Oh any way I just an Australian drummer and being on the underside of the world may have me thinking all topsy turvy.

1) Um, I didn't say either drummer was better.......you did.

2) So glad to know you've both experienced an enema and have cornered the market on the understanding of attitude.

3) It wasn't shock value, there's a story behind it....you want the story, do the research and quit making blind assumptions


Ugh,
bing

 

[rocky outcrop]

Hey lighten up its only music .have you heard of leg pulling . If you realy want my opinion(and by now you don't)comparing drummers is just an exersize in tail chasing. And on the subject of blind asumptions how did you know I was sight impaired?

 

[VOXVENDOR]

Hey.. this is just for fun....


*smacks the bad boys*

 

[bingbing]

Hey lighten up its only music .have you heard of leg pulling . If you realy want my opinion(and by now you don't)comparing drummers is just an exersize in tail chasing. And on the subject of blind asumptions how did you know I was sight impaired?

I didn't........how did you know I had a tail and no legs?

 

[Matt303]

According to Sting, Stuart Copeland couldn't keep time. The record with the black and white cover is Animal Logic and you can hear way out of time kick drum on the triplets. I think it was a lame attempt at fusion but Copeland is no Peter Erskine. I dont think he is technically the best drummer by any strech of the imagination. I hear nothing blindingly original on Van Halen tracks other, but I guess you have to give the band credit for starting off (or at least popularising) a whole guitar style.
So if we judge on technical capability I guess Copeland might loose out. In terms of who is best. I would always judge this on how many performances would you consider to be unique to the individual, where only that person could have pulled it off and come up with the idea. i.e. Rosanna, 50 Ways, Db Waltz, AJA, Sunshine of you Love, Any number of Led Zep tracks, Tommorow Never Knows etc
By this reckinoing Stuart Copeland is way ahead:

Every Breath you take is masterfull and simple

Wrapped around your finger

Roxanne (I did hear a comment that there is nothing great in this tracks drumming, complete bollox, nobody else would have done this at the time)

to name but a few.

Also I think Rock drumming is generally a limited genre (with very few but notable exceptions). Give me a drummer who can groove.

 

[vaughn]

...I would always judge this on how many performances would you consider to be unique to the individual, where only that person could have pulled it off and come up with the idea. i.e. Rosanna, 50 Ways...By this reckinoing Stuart Copeland is way ahead:

Roxanne (I did hear a comment that there is nothing great in this tracks drumming, complete bollox, nobody else would have done this at the time)

I have to chime in here and second the mention of 50 ways. steve gadd pulled out some genuis chops for that simple tune. playing it and creating it as we know are worlds apart. that's why I believe copeland is better for this silly-ass poll. same with the mention of roxanne. who else would have done that in the early 80's? some mentioned peter erskine - he was playing weather report, not psuedo punk/jazz/rock music and creating a very unique style of his own with the police. anyone who says the police suck has to be a world class myopian - broaden horizons a bit.

 

[bingbing]

According to Sting, Stuart Copeland couldn't keep time. The record with the black and white cover is Animal Logic and you can hear way out of time kick drum on the triplets.

Also I think Rock drumming is generally a limited genre (with very few but notable exceptions). Give me a drummer who can groove.

Which song are you talking about? I'm pretty sure Stewart studied African rhythms quite carefully. It's possible that the "out of time" triplets were intentional. That motion is quite common in Guinean, Malinese, and Ghanaian drumming. None of the police began as "formally trained musicians", and their music was wonderfully raw and advanced at the same time.

Someone please define "groove" to me......the word is used so often to define a drummer. I think both Copeland and A.V.H. have proven their respective grooves in musical context.

bing

 

[jamal buchet]

i didnt read any of this post but my vote goes to Mike Portnoy.....holy shit this guy is unreal...i heard this guy and immediatly started playing guitar..i mean whats the point....of course theres "PETRUCCI"...on git so....im really working on my tamborine skills lately........




jamal

 

[Matt303]

Which song are you talking about? I'm pretty sure Stewart studied African rhythms quite carefully. It's possible that the "out of time" triplets were intentional. That motion is quite common in Guinean, Malinese, and Ghanaian drumming. None of the police began as "formally trained musicians", and their music was wonderfully raw and advanced at the same time.

Someone please define "groove" to me......the word is used so often to define a drummer. I think both Copeland and A.V.H. have proven their respective grooves in musical context.

bing

Bing,


You could be right that out of time triplets were intentional but I don’t think so in the context of the track. It just sounds badly played. The tune has Stanley Clark on Bass doing his ‘I wish I’d been a lead guitarist’ impression.
As far as defining groove and the use of throw away terminology, to some extent you are right; many adjectives get used to describe attributes of music and players because it’s difficult to put many into words.
By groove I mean that thing which sets drummers aside from drum machines. It is therefore much more than time keeping, although time keeping is fundamentally necessary. At its essence it’s the musical bit of drumming. The best way I can describe my understanding in context is by example
Some drummers seem to have an intrinsic style which creates a certain groove. A good example of this is to check out the Steely Dan making of AJA (part of the classic album series). Two great drummers play the same tune (Peg), first the original player Rick Marotta then Bernard Purdy. Both great drummers but the track sounds totally different when played by Purdy. He has a weight to his drumming where Marotta has lightness. They both play in time, but the groove is different. The skill of Fagan and Becker was to pick the best style for the track.
A tune which sums up groove because the playing is actually fairly ‘scruffy’ is Stevie Wonders’ I Wish. For my money Stevie Wonder is the ultimate groove merchant, not a great technical drummer. I don’t know how he does what he does, but if anyone does know, please tell me. I do know that in terms of drumming it has little to do with a technical degree of difficulty but is intrinsically musical and unique.
The ability to change style to fit the tune is what I believe sets Steve Gadd aside from almost everyone else. On Chuck E’s In Love he plays a little behind the beat (not slower) and it creates a heaviness to the sound and stops the tune sounding to ‘chirpy’. On One Trick Pony he drives the tune (I don’t mean speeds up) which generates an inertia and excitement. This seems to be created by subtle changes in the sub divisions of the rhythm coupled with specific accenting.
This is my take on it anyway and what I mean by groove.

 

[bingbing]

Some drummers seem to have an intrinsic style which creates a certain groove. A good example of this is to check out the Steely Dan making of AJA (part of the classic album series). Two great drummers play the same tune (Peg), first the original player Rick Marotta then Bernard Purdy. Both great drummers but the track sounds totally different when played by Purdy. He has a weight to his drumming where Marotta has lightness. They both play in time, but the groove is different. The skill of Fagan and Becker was to pick the best style for the track.
A tune which sums up groove because the playing is actually fairly ‘scruffy’ is Stevie Wonders’ I Wish. For my money Stevie Wonder is the ultimate groove merchant, not a great technical drummer. I don’t know how he does what he does, but if anyone does know, please tell me. I do know that in terms of drumming it has little to do with a technical degree of difficulty but is intrinsically musical and unique.
The ability to change style to fit the tune is what I believe sets Steve Gadd aside from almost everyone else. On Chuck E’s In Love he plays a little behind the beat (not slower) and it creates a heaviness to the sound and stops the tune sounding to ‘chirpy’. On One Trick Pony he drives the tune (I don’t mean speeds up) which generates an inertia and excitement. This seems to be created by subtle changes in the sub divisions of the rhythm coupled with specific accenting.
This is my take on it anyway and what I mean by groove.

Thank you for your elaboration, Matt. I believe your take is well thought out. Are you using "style" interchangeably with "groove" here, per your Gadd example? From your remarks on Gadd I am assuming you value versatility in "style" and/or "groove".

bing

 

[wyr2hs]

Keith moon is much better then both

Well mabey not, but hes much cooler by far. And mitch mitchell was also splogtastic

 

[Doug Quance]

I wouldn't nominate Roxanne as an indicator of Copeland's skill. Actually, I kinda hate that song. I would choose Tea in the Sahara, Murder By Numbers, or Wrapped Around Your Finger. Wrapped is my favorite Police song it's got this simple, almost minimalistic, drumming but so incredibly tasteful I'm in awe every time I hear it.

Ain't that the fucking truth.

Copeland was a minimalist... which is pretty hard for some to comprehend. And he refused to play solos. His music spoke for itself.

I, too, am in awe when I hear "Wrapped Around Your Finger".

 

[monstertruck]

why only the two drummers?
hard to say who's better they have sort of different styles but i went with van halen anyway

 

[brandrum]

all I know is that for me, it has always been easier to learn Police covers than Van Halen covers.....whatever that's worth.

 

[timboZ]

It has been over 5 years that this poll has been opend...............

Do we know who the best drummer is yet!!!!!!!!!!