Whos the better Drummer?

  • Thread starter Thread starter VOXVENDOR
  • Start date Start date

Who's a better technical player

  • Alex Van Halen (Van Halen)

    Votes: 30 20.7%

  • Stuart Copeland (The Police)

    Votes: 115 79.3%
  • Total voters
    145
You Bastard!! ;)

Of course I remember Right Now, that shit was on MTV constantly...I just can't remember the name of the album. Wasn't Poundcake (or something) on that album too? Anyway, what was incorrect was sonusman's assumption that all I had listened to was new VH, which in his opinion supports my assertion. Regardless, AVH is a good rock drummer, but I'm not sure how you can place him up with Neil. When was the last time you heard AVH layering African rhtyhms on top of traditional rhythms. To me, there's a level of orchestration in Neil's playing that I don't hear in AVH.

The fact that the Police haven't released any albums since 1986 is a terrible terrible thing. They're excellent musicians with egos the size of Everest....which of course was the problem.
 
You call OU812 "old" Van Halen? Kid, I bet you are like 22 years old and that is as "old" as you can get. :)

Go take a listen to the first 5 albums by Van Halen then we can talk. Until then, you have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about concerning ANYTHING Van Halen related.

And indeed, I dont' really think Neil Pert is the shit. And you could ONLY think so because you think Copeland only being half as good as Steve Smith is "debatable".

Go take a listen to Vital Information's FIRST album, then lets talk. It came out back around the time The Police were big. Just start comparing ANY Copeland drumming with what Steve Smith was doing. Shit.....Steve Smith could do what Copeland was laying down with his LEFT hand while talking to his agent with a cell phone in the other hand! ;)

Ed
 
AVH aint even in the same league as Neil Peart.

Not even close,stuart copeland has close to the same drumming style as peart but Alex Van Halen isn't,i'm sorry but thats just my oppinion. As far as hard rock drummers go i like Tommy Aldridge,he's a hard rock drummer that is very very technical and very fast on the double bass's.and here's a very talented drummer that few have heard of,Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater.
 
I should point this out right away.

I HATE the Police. I hate Stink.

I LOVE Van Halen.

I do not own any Pahleeze albums.

I have quite a few VH ablums.

When I was rating Copland, it was based on his soundtrack, solo album, and "Rock School" (PBS show from the 80's) performances.

Not his "work" with the Police.

I think that Copland is a better drummer than Alex.

Carl
 
You call OU812 "old" Van Halen? Kid, I bet you are like 22 years old and that is as "old" as you can get.
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Once again, you are incorrect. I said OU812 is the most recent VH album I could name - that's as "new" as it gets for me. I have, at one time, owned their first seven albums. I was closer to 22 when OU812 came out.
 
sonusman said:
Go take a listen to Vital Information's FIRST album, then lets talk. It came out back around the time The Police were big. Just start comparing ANY Copeland drumming with what Steve Smith was doing. Shit.....Steve Smith could do what Copeland was laying down with his LEFT hand while talking to his agent with a cell phone in the other hand! ;)Ed
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Ed- I saw Vital Information last Sunday night in a small club here in San Diego. Steve Smith was unbelievable just like he always is. Frank Gambale on guitar, Tom Coster on keys, and Baron Browne on bass. The second half of the show was really loose and improvised.

Alex Van Halen. I hated the sound of his toms.....I think they may have been roto-toms. Yuck. Probably a great drummer, I can't say because I gave away my Van Halen records years ago.
 
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These questions are always tough because your really comparing the drumming that is "recorded" on an album versus the drumming on another set of albums, ie; Van Halen vs. Police. If the drumming "recorded" for both Van Halen and the Police is the Best that Alex or Copeland can do, than Copeland wins hands down.
But, probably the most important thing I have learned in my 25 years of drumming is to serve the band and the song and not your own "show-off" inclinations. It's pretty safe to assume that Alex's drumming is like that, not because that's the best he can do, but because the straight forward rock beats serve the band and the songs best.
In my opinion, and if I was involved in producing older Van Halen with David Lee Roth (which btw is the only good stuff imho), I would be saying anything but a straight forward back beat with bass is all those songs should have because David's vocals and Eddie's guitar take such a center stage approach. Too many "center stager's" in one song or band makes for a great piece of "technical" music that musicians can appreciate but generally does not make for a good song for the average listener.
Do you really think, AC/DC or Judas Priest's or even Shania Twain's Drummers are playing the best that they could do on the songs? If that were the case, they are three severely overpaid musicians. The truth is they are three examples of some very talented drummers serving the song or the overall concept of the band.
 
Just a little fact...

99% of Shania's recordings are sequenced Samples.....

(yes, even though there are drummer Credits on the Album)

Usually Mutt Lange sequences a bass drum and snare dum and then overdubs cybals and hats....
 
But, probably the most important thing I have learned in my 25 years of drumming is to serve the band and the song and not your own "show-off" inclinations. It's pretty safe to assume that Alex's drumming is like that, not because that's the best he can do, but because the straight forward rock beats serve the band and the songs best.
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You raise a good point, but the same point could be made for Stewart Copeland, or any drummer. For all we know Weezer's drummer could make Terry Bozzio look like a little girl behind the kit (though I would wager huge sums of money that he couldn't).
 
Elevate, I think we agree in theory and I definately would not wage that bet, because I would almost certainly lose. The very best drummers seem to find a way to include their drumming "prowess" by making it sound simple but yet underneath if you listen, youll hear a very complicated arrangement.
I think Neil Peart in the last couple of albums did a very good job at that, ie; making something complicated sound simple, rather than the in your face, "YYZ" approach.
BTW, having said that, I'm a much bigger fan of older Rush, though.
Jim
 
JimJoe - Yea, that's really it. That's what I don't think Voxvendor is hearing in Stewart Copeland's playing - a level of mastery that isn't immediately apparent; subtle nuances like variations in the openess of the hihats, small cymbal accents, how the beat can be on top of, behind, or ahead of the music, etc...

This is besides the point, but I think Danny Carey has really become the quintessential "rock" drummer - the combination of so many styles and techniques, all played so effortlessly and with such fluidity it boggles the mind. I recommend going to see Tool just to watch Danny at work.
 
I am a guitar player, so I grew up listening to early Van Halen. Believe me, I must have heard every song through the end of 5150 a thousand times. And I have never heard anything to challenge the supremacy of Stewart Copeland on any of those songs. Maybe on the later albums AVH expressed some sort of mastery I never got to hear... but I seriously doubt it.
 
elevate said:
That's what I don't think Voxvendor is hearing in Stewart Copeland's playing - a level of mastery that isn't immediately apparent; subtle nuances like variations in the openess of the hihats, small cymbal accents, how the beat can be on top of, behind, or ahead of the music, etc...
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Amongst other instruments, I play drums mayself... Trust me Im hearing all the "nuances"

They just aren't ground breaking... To me

Someone mentioned Roxanne.... that song is simple.... all of the tom hits and cymbals and open hat hits included...

Check out "Amsterdam" by VH.... I have NEVER heard SC do shit like THAT!
 
In Roxanne, to me, it's just the part where it breaks into the chorus, and Stewart Copeland just starts doing the most subtle little open hh accent. I shouldn't need to explain it to a drummer, but it's friggin tasty, the way he accents their singing of "rox-- anne." Nothing earth-shattering, but 99.9% of drummers would never decide to play that particular beat right there, and it's perfect. You want to gain an appreciation for Stewart Copeland, cover a Police song, and play it *exactly* the way he played it, and maybe you'll start to appreciate the beauty of it. If not, then oh well, there's nothing more to say, you just don't like him.

The interesting thing would be to ask Alex Van Halen if he was a better drummer than Stewart Copeland.
 
I wouldn't nominate Roxanne as an indicator of Copeland's skill. Actually, I kinda hate that song. I would choose Tea in the Sahara, Murder By Numbers, or Wrapped Around Your Finger. Wrapped is my favorite Police song it's got this simple, almost minimalistic, drumming but so incredibly tasteful I'm in awe every time I hear it.
 
charger said:
The interesting thing would be to ask Alex Van Halen if he was a better drummer than Stewart Copeland.
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I would imagine he would say.. "I really admire Stuarts style, He is a great drummer...."

He's pretty down to earth....

Right Now, has a pretty decent beat to it, that alot of decent drummers would have trouble with....

I do see where Stuart is good..Don't get me wrong, im not saying he suck.. cause he doesn't....... but *I* personally prefer AVH....
 
yesss......

this is the point that I was trying to make way, way back in this growing thread....to me - being a great drummer is not just about blinding triplets or flaming flamadiddledoes...

sure, it helps if you can impress the kids with some slick double bass and a drumset with 4 bass drums and play every rudiment in the book at 150bpm...

but when it boils down to it ......It's about TASTE!! you need to be able to combine the technical abilities with style

when a drummer can make the simplest beat sound amazing (ie. Copeland, Steve Gadd, Vinnie Colauita, etc.) - that's amazing to me....

I have actually gotten to see BOTH drummers live....both were great....they are different drummers, different music, etc....this is why I think that it's useless compaing 'who's better?'
 
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