who mics hihats?

  • Thread starter Thread starter corban
  • Start date Start date

who mics hihats?

  • me

    Votes: 35 31.3%
  • not me

    Votes: 43 38.4%
  • depends on the application

    Votes: 34 30.4%

  • Total voters
    112
It's pretty redundant.

I can't really even imagine calling it a "hi-hat mic." Essentially, what it is is either another overhead mic with loud hi-hat, or a more distant, somewhat off-axis snare mic.

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I go either way. *I* prefer whole kit micing to close micing if I can get away with it- less work later on for mixing and you get the sound the drummer and his kit. I usually don't mic the hats in that case.

I've learned, though, that it takes a *really* good and experienced drummer to know what they want. Inexperienced drummers might tell you "yeah, I love the sound of this kit and I want you to capture it exactly the way it sounds in the room" but when they hear it back in the rough mix it doesn't sound the way it does when they are practicing alone. Usually all I have to do is smash the crap out of a submix and they go "Yeah, that's what it sounds like! Why didn't you just record it that way? I don't think you know what you're doing!"

Idiots. Oh, well. I guess that's why I'm behind the board and not them.

Then I wish I had close mic'ed everything- and that's when you need the hats. The less experienced the drummer the more I need to mic. It still doesn't work as well as I'd like, but it saved me *some* headaches down the road if I have more control. And the hats are usually things I want to turn DOWN not up since less experienced drummers tend to hit them WAY harder then they need to.

I *love* sessions with good drummers. God, I love good drummers. You know the ones who know how their kit sounds and play the whole thing well? Who balance their own volumes and play on time within their limits? Ones who know what they are doing and trust you to know what you are doing.

The last album I was working on before the band exploded had a super flashy young drummer. Good. Creative. Not good enough for himself, though. It was a low budget project and we plowed through the base tracks in 3 days. Of that we spent about 4 or 5 hours getting drum sounds and the drummer was really happy with what he was hearing.

3 months later he was saying things like "I don't like the sound of the toms" and "the kick needs to be fuller." Uh... dood... we haven't even done any mixing, we're working on the vocals and everything else is DONE. We're not recutting drums. Then he asked to borrow my mBox and the drive with the sessions on it because he wanted to do some drum editting. Didn't like some of the hi hat and symbol work on a song or two...

IDIOT!! The time to edit your ambitious drum tracks was before we started cutting the rest of the band. The jerk was blaming ME for his sloppy takes- BEFORE we even got to any serious mixing. I tried to explain that to the band and even offered to do a quick rough mix to prove to them that the raw tracks had everything they needed.

But no. The unedited, un-mixed drum tracks didn't sound like Incubus so I didn't know what I was doing. :rolleyes:

The band broke up 2 months later.

Anyway- that was a situation where, in retrospect, I might have been able to save the session by a) reading the drummer's mind, b) not over-estimating the knowledge level of the band, c) micing every damn drum, and d) spending more time on the rough mixes even though the band didn't want to pay for them.

Sorry. Long story to get to the point that something like deciding how the kit is miced- including whether or not to mic the hats- can actually have a huge impact on how the session goes- and not just in how the thing sounds.

So now, since I have plenty of tracks, I mic it without fail. I hardly *ever* use it, but I do mic it. Even when I know I don't need it. Especially if its a low budget project with no producer and an experienced band... its not about me, my knowledge, or even the sound: its about the drummer feeling confident that his genius is being properly captured.

All that just about micing the damn hats? Yup. I've run into so many young musicians now who have read just enough about the recording process to be really f*cking annoying. They ask things like "We're using Pro Tools, right? Only Pro Tools is good enough for us" and "Don't we need to mic the bottom of each tom, too?" and "we want all the levels to be really HIGH so we can have a LOUD album."

OK. Rant over...

-Chris
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Yup. I've run into so many young musicians now who have read just enough about the recording process to be really f*cking annoying. They ask things like "We're using Pro Tools, right? Only Pro Tools is good enough for us" and "Don't we need to mic the bottom of each tom, too?" and "we want all the levels to be really HIGH so we can have a LOUD album."

:D :p :D

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I come from the field of thought that the overheads are the overall representation of the kit. Each individual mic on the kit is reinforcement for that overhead sound. When setting balance and panning schemes, the individual drum microphones come into play for adding to that overall kit sound.

Second reason, 75% of the drummers I record are not very good with phrasing and controlling their dynamics. I want some control when I automate, and I loose all of that control when I have no indivdual mic for something.

Reason number 3, surround mixing. I like options to be able to pan in strange ways, or to send that high hat or whatever mic in a pan sweep around the monitors.
 
The way I figure it, there are many reasons why you might want to mic the hi hat, but absolutely no compelling reasons to not mic it besides a lack of capability. That pretty much answers the question for me.
 
I'm always looking for ways to make the hi-hats quieter on recordings.
 
I almost always mic the hat. I generally use it in the mix as well. Not necessarily a lot of it, just enough to help localize the hi-hat. I almost always miss it if I don't have it. However, if I low on inputs or mics, it's the first track to go.
 
Reilley said:
Ed Millicent.

damn he's got a poetic name. If a really ugly girl who I hated was obnoxiously staring me in the face but was repeating that name over and over again, I'd probably still do her.
 
I do. If it get's thrown out oh well. You can eq it, pan it, mute it :D



F.S.
 
It's always nice to have it. The other day I tracked a HH with an AKG 451, completely on top of it, pointing right on to the top Hat at around 3 inches and it sounded amazing.... after some panning and a little eq, it just brought the song to life. With that said I guess my response to the main Q is: Yes, by all means, track it, it could help and if it doesnt, well it didnt hurt.
Carlos
 
i mic hats if i have an extra mic availible.

i'd rather close mic them and reduce the OH's in the mix, because my room still isnt the greatest, not that it ever will be. its OK without it though.

BTW, i finally got a nice drum mix this past weekend :eek:

took about 9 months to learn how to record a drumset :D
 
I guess I'm part of what some might call the "new school" drum micing type, in that whenever possible I mic anything the drummer will be hitting so that I can get really clear definition of each drum/cymbal and use a lot of panning to get a really full stereo sound. I use overheads to get some room noise and mesh everything together so it sounds like an actual kit, but generally I use as many mics as I can at the moment just to give me more options.

An issue I've run into lately is that the two crash cymbals are cutting through way too much in the overheads. I really really try to get the toms to come through very crisp because a good pan and appropriate compression can make a drummer really proud of his fills. Since it's hard to do this with just overheads without getting to much shimmer from the cymbals I like to mic each tom. The other important thing to me is getting the hi hat and ride, because putting one hard left and one hard right is essential for getting the soundscape I want. I was talking to another sound guy lately and he brought up how some people always mix the drums as if you were facing the drummer, but he and I always mix from the drummer's perspective. Doesn't really matter, but I just think it's important to do one or the other and not leave everything centered. And, on the other hand, don't place everything wrong just to make it sound "cool." For example, I've heard people pan toms so that when you play high to low consecutively the pan will jump sporadically around. It might make fills sound twice as complex, but it just doesn't sound authentic.

But to answer the original question, yes. I always mic the hi hat, and I've found it sounds best when you put it as close to the bell as you can get it, and angled somewhat away from the snare to reduce bleed.
 
Hi Hats Miced

I read the Joe Meek recording techniques book and someone who worked with him said he used a mic on top of the snare and a mic in the kick drum and 1 or two over heads (usually a dynamic) and therefore no hihat mic. But at the end of the book in a photo it looks like he had miced the hihats with a shure 545. Which is strange because 545s are kinda midrangey and midrange doesnt sound good to me on cymbals of any kind.

Another (non related to hihats) strange thing about Joe Meeks alleged drum recording techniques is that the book says he miced the snare from the top. But ive studied the records and those snare drums sound very much like they were miced from the bottom.

If anyone cares.
 
When I first started recording my drums I mic'ed the hi hats but after a while I realized that, when mixing, I was turning the hi hat mic down so low I couldnt even hear it. So now I dont even bother, just let the hats get picked up in the overheads, and my recordings sound way better.
 
with the way the drummers I get in smash the hi hats I wish there was a mic that absorbed into a tube and shot it up the drummers ass every time he played too loud.
 
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