who knows about ribbon mics?

Thanks :)
btw what would be the pros and cons between this Sennheiser E609 and a good Ribbon for miking loud guitar amps ?
 
Both would sound good. However, I have yet to find a mic (any type) that sounds more like what you are hearing acoustically when a guitar player plays then the Royer ribbon mic. If you want to hear exactly what the guitar sounds like, stuff a Royer right in the grill of the speaker:) Like mentioned above though, ribbon mics need more gain than conventional condensors. My Royer on average needs about 20 db more gain on any source than most condensors. However, on a raging guitar track? No problem. The other nice thing is how moving them sounds. If you tilt it a bit, the high end changes. Proximity seems to reach much farther from the mic, and, you can turn it around and run it out of phase if you want a slightly "airier" sound out of it. I know this sounds like a real Royer advertisement, but it is just one of those very few purchases I have made that was specialized, yet had such a huge impact. Also, I am not saying the Royer is the "greatest" mic or even ribbon mic out there, but form what I can tell, on guitars? It just may be;)
 
The Royer 121 is the only ribbon mic I have experience with and everytime I've used it I've loved it. Used mainly for guitar cabs and strings.
 
Comparing a $200 list e609 and a $1000 list Royer doesn't seem fair. I have never personally used either, though I would love to hear how my voice sounded on a Royer.

The reputation of the 609 is that it can handle large sound pressures and can be physically placed extremely close to the grille. So it can close mic loud amps. Maybe a Royer could take that abuse, but I would feel uneasy about the risk.

the other big difference is that the e609 is a supercardoid and the royer is a figure 8. The 609 close to tha speaker face will pick up just about nothing but the amp itself and the royer will be equally picking up the reflected sound in the room.
 
i seem to recall something in home recording magazine, sos, or another specifically talking about how the royer takes higher sound levels than other mics in the ribbon category. as was previously said, the sense i have gotten from the reviews that i vaguely remember is this is a mic that breaks a lot conceptions/rules. i think royer had that in mind. saw a brand new r121 on ebay selling for 530 the other day....was so very tempted, but i gots to prioritize
 
Bubbleboy, I saw that same Royer...it ended up going for over $900. I had in my Watch List.

To add to what he said, I believe the 121 is capable of being used on very loud sound sources. It has become a pretty standard mic on electric guitar cab from what I understand.
 
I have put my Royer in front of some seriously loud stacks. I have worked with plenty of live bands who do the same. The Royer R121 will handle whatever you throw at it. I would much sooner stick my Royer in front of a loud guitar than my 414's. As far as picking up the room? Don't even worry about that at all. First, if your guitar is loud (which I am assuming it is if you are worried about the mic handling it) than the room won't even factor in (unless maybe you are in a serious echo chamber in which case hold off on the mic and treat the room first). Secondly, the back side of the Royer is out of phase from the front. I really would not think of the Royer as your typical ribbon mic at all. They will even tell you to feel free and close mic a loud cab. I don't know of another mic out there right now that really has a better reputation for close mic'ing guitar cabs.

As far as the 609 goes, it should sound pretty good. The royer however should sound REALLY good.
 
EleKtriKaz said:
Bubbleboy, I saw that same Royer...it ended up going for over $900. I had in my Watch List.
Click to expand...

ha! i guess that was a day ago. bidding must have heated up toward the end, i tell you what
 
I've used my Royer to mic guitar cabs. It is by far the best mic I've tried to get great electric guitar tones. I have a friend who uses a pair for to mic drum kits overhead with much success. Guess I gotta save my pennies for a second one...
 
I am using a md-421 II on guitar cabs right now and i like it. But all this ribbon talk has me wondering. Most the the guitars that come in a big rocking high gain guitar sound. is that what we are talking about with the royer? and how would it compare to the sen md-421 II ?

thanks.

jay.
 
In my opinion, no comparison. The royer made mics that I had previously liked sound absolutlely boring (on loud electric guitars). Including 421's. Rocking high gain guitars are what I love my Royer the most on. Granted I don't have a bunch of super expensive LD coindensors with a huge beautiful room, but I do have a nice start;) i.e...414's, KSM32's, 4050's, Blueberry, 451's, 609's, 421's, 57's, PL20 etc...

I have only gotten to play with the AEA mics in a limited capacity so I can't really say much. What I can say is that what other trusted people have told me has been awesome, my limited use was great as well. However, there were a couple factors involved in my purchasing the royer before the AEA (I say before because I still want one and its high on my list). First, I was under the impression that the AEA would be less likely to react to well to really high SPL situations. Second I was under the impression that the AEA may not actually be as "fragile" as older ribbon mics, that it wasn't quite as durable and "road worthy" as the Royer. I do tons of live shows and with bands that I enjoy, a lot of my studio toys end up at the gigs. The Royer is now one of those.

Also, I have had nothing but great things to say about the Royer, but I don't want people thinking that I see it as the "be all end all" of mics, or even of ribbon mics for that matter. For me though, nothing has consistantly sounded nearly as good on guitar cabs as the Royer and I believe that anyone that does a lot of electric guitar recording could highly benefit from and would not regret the purchase (no matter how hard you had to save) of a Royer ribbon mic. Also, I am in no way shape or form affiliated with Royer or related to anyone there:P
 
nevermind.

I assume it's the 121. something to think about. I am getting great results in my studio but what do you think would be the better investment the royer 121 or the mesa recording preamp?

jay.
 
The 121 would be my choice if you plan on using the Mesa to record direct. However, no mic will replace having a better stack. I would take a Mesa stack and a 57 any day over a Crate with a Royer. However, I would rather use the same mic for every recording than always using the same amp sounds. Its a real tossup. If you are only recording yourself, than a better front end on your guitar would most likely be the best choice. If you are recording other people as well, than probably the mic would be more useful. One thing to consider, you might want to spend a little extra on the Royer 122 if you don't have a really good high gain preamp. The 121 needs a lot more preamp juice to achieve your optimal tracking level. The 122 is phantom powered and more sensitive so it needs less (about 15db less if I remember right) to get the same level. Then again, on a loud guitar amp that won't even be an issue at all. Only on quieter sources.
 
xstatic said:
The 121 would be my choice if you plan on using the Mesa to record direct. However, no mic will replace having a better stack. I would take a Mesa stack and a 57 any day over a Crate with a Royer. However, I would rather use the same mic for every recording than always using the same amp sounds. Its a real tossup. If you are only recording yourself, than a better front end on your guitar would most likely be the best choice. If you are recording other people as well, than probably the mic would be more useful. One thing to consider, you might want to spend a little extra on the Royer 122 if you don't have a really good high gain preamp. The 121 needs a lot more preamp juice to achieve your optimal tracking level. The 122 is phantom powered and more sensitive so it needs less (about 15db less if I remember right) to get the same level. Then again, on a loud guitar amp that won't even be an issue at all. Only on quieter sources.
Click to expand...

That is some good advice. If you're going to be recording the same guitar sound over and over, invest in the amp and guitar first and a 57 and upgrade down the line. If you're going to be recording any number of different people, guitars, amps, etc...then invest in the mic.
 
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