who gives a crap about your lyrics

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weatherbill

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ok, so lyrics do matter some, but if you aint got the classic melody behind it, i don't want to hear it. I will turn your tape off man! SO when you all out there are writing, so what! Get a melody that will hit home. Otherwise, you will leave people out in space.
 
Well, you shithead...

I don't think I've ever been involved in a flame before, and I'm not sure I really want to start now. Instead, I will deliver a lecture, that you can ignore or scoff at as you see fit.

Words in songs are there for a reason. If people didn't want to hear words, the radio would play nothing but instrumentals. Instead, instrumental hits are very occasional things (this excludes such genres as jazz, eletronica, classical, etc.).

So people want to HEAR words, if not necessarily think about them. And I know that not everyone listens to words in songs. I don't think that Lola or Walk On The Wild Side would have been mainstream rock hits if people really listened to the words. But people do listen to choruses, I think.

Anyway, I think of songwriting, or at least the songs I like, as putting down words to music. The music does have to be good, good enough that you don't have to pay attention to the lyrics if you don't want to.

But there are some people who do work on the words to their songs. And there are some people who listen to music based on the words and thoughts expressed by them. Leonard Cohen used to write poetry, now he writes songs. Songs sell better. Even the most obscure songwriter probably has a bigger audience than the most successful poets. Most people don't know who Robert Frost is, a lot more people know who Hank Willams is. And Hank's songs, by the way, have some of the best lyrics that I have ever heard. And people are still covering his songs 50 years after his death. It's too bad that the most famous and enduring Nashville artist wouldn't be signed today.

If one listens to the radio, in any genre, it should be obvious that the songs today do not have much lyrical depth. And those songs are hits for a while, then they're gone. If you want to work on writing hit songs, go ahead. There seems to be no lack of hack songwriters making really forgettable, uninspired music in your part of the world.

This is not the 'writing hit songs' forum.

This is the 'songwriting' forum.

On a website that is dedicated to 'homerecording'.

It's NOT tunesmith. As far as I can tell, it's people working on their craft, making their own music, more for their personal growth than to be the next Garth Brooks content provider.

And it seems to be going along fine without you.

Why don't you keep it that way?
 
weatherbill said:
ok, so lyrics do matter some, but if you aint got the classic melody behind it, i don't want to hear it. I will turn your tape off man! SO when you all out there are writing, so what! Get a melody that will hit home. Otherwise, you will leave people out in space.
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doh! Everybodyu knows that.

BTW listen to sondriven's last mix. It has on heck of A melody.
 
I actually agree with Weatherbill, although I'm not proud to side with such an angry fella.

Lighten up, Weatherbill! It's only rock n' roll...

Bodhisan
 
If you are going to write...You really should aspire to do both..Shouldn't you??


Don
 
Don,

I do agree to a certain extent. It depends on who you're trying to reach. If you want to make money, you write for the kids, and the ones who spend all the money, they only care if it sounds good. If you want to be respected and don't care about the money, then, yeah, you aspire to write some decent lyrics. I'm past my prime of trying to reach the kids, but am not ashamed to write lyrics on the level of Hank Williams, i.e. "Hey, good lookin', whatcha got cookin? How's about cookin' somethin' up with me?"

That's not Raymond Carver, but it's...music.

Bodhisan
 
Well, I'm not angry anymore....

And I will never write anything when I am mad ever again. Well, maybe not post things when I am mad. Writing songs when you are mad is great!

I have been thinking about this, and I am ashamed to admit that I agree with most of you. Without a melody, you might as well be writing poetry. In fact I have already implied this in responding to a few of the lyric posts. I find hearing the music while reading the lyrics invaluable - how the words work in a musical context, and the way they are delivered is probably the most crucial aspect of presenting and listening to a song.

When I went and thought about this subject, I remembered that almost all of my songs come with the music first, and I more or less fashion the words around them. When a song comes into my head, there is a melody to it. It may not be the best melody in their world, maybe not a 'classic' melody, but there are some notes there.

I still think that weatherbill could have presented his ideas more diplomatically, and I do stand by my rant.

As always, I invite anyone to check out my songs via the 'profile' button. Then you can have a good laugh, and discount my opinions appropiately.

I wouldn't mind hearing some of your tunes, weatherbill.
 
Interesting discussion..Tears on my pillow pain in my heart.. over you...Good hook will always sell a song...I guess it depends on who you are trying to please..No matter what you do you should do the best work you can do..If you write modern country then do the best modern country you can do..I think that you should always "mean" the "work"..If you do then you will connect with the performer..then they can "sell" the performance of the song..To me{IMHO}thats what gives a hit song its "hit potental"..When a writer and performer connect and then ultimately the listener..Bodhisan,Hank was a brillant songwriter.... theres Brillance in truth and simplicity..And I can't argue with you about reachin "kids"...But kids liked "Yummy yummy I've got love in my tummy" and "Please allow me to introduce my self I'm a man of wealth and taste"..I wonder if this discussion went on back in cave man days, I can hear it now..ARRRGh!! EEECK oooh? AAAARGG..LOL{translation}Do you like this song? Its got a good beat and I can dance to it !I give it a TEN!

Don
 
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I actually agree with Eric's rant. But that is because of my own personal tastes and opinions. The lyric to me is the MOST important part of the song. If I hear a song that has the best hook and melody in the world but I don't relate to the lyrics, It is much less moving to me than an average melody with words that strike deep in my heart. Music is great and what I plan on doing the rest of my life, and in certain circumstances the music will trancend to a place where you understand something you didn't before or bring about a growth emotionally or spiritually. But more often than not (in my life) The words of the music have brought about those changes.

Matt
 
Lyrics meant more to me when I was younger. Not that I'm old and wise now, but these days the melody comes first, followed by what's being said.

A few weeks ago a friend of mine excitedly popped in a cd he wanted me to hear. Less than 10 seconds into he was sticking the lyrics in my faces telling me to read them. Nope, doesn't work that way unless it's something special, which is rarely the case.

In cases that are special - to me at least - I *still* listen to the melodies several times before really lending an ear to the lyrics.

one of the best melodies I've ever heard:

la la la la la la la la la
la la la la la la la la la
la la la
la la la la
la la la la la la la la la
 
Vurt,

That is funny that you mentioned that words meant more to you when you were younger, Because I was thinking the same thing excpet I listened more to the melodies when I was younger. But I am only 25 so I guess I could revert back the other way when I am an old geezer like you...:D

Matt
 
Day-um Eric!
Why don't you tell him how you really feel! :)

I thought what bill was trying to say was that lyrical expression is lost without an excellent melody, or interesting counter-point to go along with it.

BTW, I was reading Robert Frost long before I was listening to Hank Williams.

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that, the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I marked the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

-Robert Frost
(I don't care WHO you are, you gotta love that!)
 
Right. Now put those words over some 311 horseshit and see who listens.
 
Vurt said:
Right. Now put those words over some 311 horseshit and see who listens.
Click to expand...
Yes, that WOULD ruin it, would it not!
(Can I revise my previous statement?)
There's always exceptions to the rule.
 
nah, I know what you meant...just reinforcing weatherbill's point :)
 
I usually find it embarassing to read people's lyrics.

It's like having to sit through some lame poem that a girl wrote and you dont really care but you know if you say that your not gonna get any so you shut up and pretend to listen.
 
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