who gives a crap about your lyrics

  • Thread starter Thread starter weatherbill
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Lyrics = important

Melody = what sells (good lyrics sometimes get stuck in your head, good melodies always do)
 
Good melodies will get both good AND bad lyrics stuck in your head...

I like trying to put good lyrics to a good melody- I want them to get stuck in somebody's head. :)

Of course, I haven't tried to sell any songs, so what do I really know? Its all about what sells, right? ;)

Take care,
Chris
 
I'm so tired of the it's all about what sells attitude around here..........Not that I'm taking shots at anyone imparticular, especially you chris, I know you do this stuff cause you love to do it........But come on everyone else.........All right I'm stopping myself right here and now...because I was about to go off on a rant that would have been twenty pages long and pissed off probably everyone who read it........Since your all creative song writers then you shouldn't have a problem imagining where it was going...........



BTW, "Thirty" I hate that word....I can not believe its just five years away....good god...


-nave

P.S. Melody>lyrics
 
Nave,

Ho, fellow 25 year old! I didn't know there was anyone else that young on here besides the occasional punk teenager. ;)

Do you ever moniter your age by where you would be in a sports career? If I was in the NFL this year I would probably be at my peak and thinking about retirement in a couple years.....

Anyway, to stay on topic....

Only the most talented and emotional musicians can make music say something without words, Example Stevie Ray Vaugn "little wing"...

I don't know I am starting to re-think my original post, I think I have to take songs case by case to decide whether the lyrics are more important or not, I just can't make a blanket statement saying one is more important than the other.

Matt
 
30 is only 1.5 years away for me. Feels great. Anyone who says "Youth is King" is likely a person who looks back more than they look around. Silly attitude. Why program yourself with an unacceptance of the inevitable?!

I don't get it. Adding years only sucks if you don't notice it happening and forget to collect experiences and friends along the way.

I suppose it sucks, too, if you still haven't sold any songs by the time you reach 30. :D :p :rolleyes: ;)

Take care,
Chris
 
A little of topic but I just had to chime in!

Your 20's are a blur!
Your 30's, you make a little money
Your 40's, Life begins!
(can't comment on the other decades, you have to live them first)
 
Chris,

I totally agree with you. I have no problem getting older, and I enjoy life no more than I ever have, and don't plan on having that change any time soon. Although it is depressing that I won't ever be a NFL superstar. BUT.....Opera careers last into the your 60's so I think I chose the right career. :p

Matt
 
No one has even mentioned the 3rd element "timbre"

No one gets shivers when i sing the words "With the lights out, it's less dangerous"
 
mgiles.....I always do the sports star age comparison thing...:D........BTW....I think that 25 is a pretty damn wierd age.........You know they used to say being a teenager was wierd but the mid twenties are real strange...........It's like right smack in the middle between "youth gone wild" and "all grown up." It's like one week I am a party animal still....Staying out late etc....and then the next week I'm totally serious with a no bullshit sort of attitued cause people really start expecting things from you in your mid-twenties.......I suppose it's a good time....It's just strange watching all your friends start to get married and shit....I went to three freakin weddings over the summer.(people from highschool getting married) ........I guess it's about that time though......


anyway, I'm not really too worried about getting old at all.....I was just kinda kidding around before.....Chris is right everyone programs themselve to expect certain things at certain times and it doesn't have to be that way.....



BTW..... how bout "Prosudy?"
 
Khompewtur said:

No one gets shivers when i sing the words "With the lights out, it's less dangerous"


That's probably cause your not comtemplating suicide on a daily basis :D
 
Prosudy? :confused:

Not sure what that means, forgive my ignorance (Iam only 25....)
 
mgiles7 said:
Nave,

Ho, fellow 25 year old! I didn't know there was anyone else that young on here besides the occasional punk teenager. ;)



I am 20 (21 in less than a month), and I consider myself much more than a "punk-ass teenager", hehe.... ;)
 
Nutdotnet,

No offence dude, that remark was totally in jest (and to figure out where all the punk teenagers were. ;) )

i actually learn a lot and enjoy any time I get to spend with the couple of teen-agers I know which you arne't anymore anyway.
I look at teenagres these days and think Was it possible that I ever had that much energy within this body?

Matt
 
if lyrics aren't important, why bother.
melody doesn't need lyric! you can play a melody on any instrument.

i disagree that kids don't care what lyrics are, as long as the song sounds good. kids care very much about the lyrics. pop-punk bands like the offspring and blink 182 get their fans by a) playing simple music that isn't complicated to listen to and b) projecting an image thru their lyrics. most kids (and a lot of "older kids" and other adults) listen to music for identification. kids need to feel cool & accepted. i've heard kids recite eminem songs and limp bizkit songs... no music, no singing, just the lyric.

to say that lyrics are unimportant is insulting and just bullshit. lyrics aren't important in instrumental music.
lyrics don't need to have any level of profundity in pop music.
but to SONGWRITERS, the lyric is damned important. a song, by definition, is a lyric and a melody... that's how they are legally copyrighted. not a melody with some words, or some words to a melody. 2 equally important things.

i always get annoyed with pop bands, simply because they have a HUGE platform to speak/sing from... but they never say or sing anything that has real meaning or importance, cos there is this f-ing stupid idea that words are unimportant. let's hook in the kids and drain their parents' pockets...................... kids grow up and out of their cool clothes; and writers grow old, and out of their cool clothes.

either way, i'd like to see someone sell a song where the lyrics are meaningless to anyone. people will buy music because the sound catches and holds their ear long enough for the words to catch into their brains... there are two hooks.
 
mgiles7 said:
Prosudy? :confused:

Not sure what that means, forgive my ignorance (Iam only 25....)

Merriam-Webster defines "prosody" as follows:

1 : the study of versification; especially : the systematic study of metrical structure
2 : a particular system, theory, or style of versification
3 : the rhythmic and intonational aspect of language
- pros.o.dist /-dist/ noun

For us as songwriters, the third definition is the most important. It's all about trying to write in such a way that the words mesh well with the melody they accompany.

Hope that helps, dude :D.
 
Beaver,

Yea, that totally helps. I wonder why I have never run across that word before... Anyway that is a huge part of song-writing for me, and probably the hardest. I always end up settleing for less than I want to in that area because it is incredibly hard to find the perfect flow of words and music and sylables and ryhmes...But if I don't just finish the song it will never get finished.
And you can always change it...right?:rolleyes:

Matt
 
My Take

Lyrics are extremely overrated and should be avoided like the plague.

Great lyrics are hard to find and should be treasured immensely.

Without a great melody, lyrics are a moot point.

Dale
 
Re: My Take

dale_c said:
Lyrics are extremely overrated and should be avoided like the plague.

Great lyrics are hard to find and should be treasured immensely.

Without a great melody, lyrics are a moot point.

Dale

I think I missed something here. Did you mean to say "Great melodies are hard to find"? If not, the first statement and the second are contradictory.

Not to argue with you, dale_c, but I think there's too much emphasis placed strictly on melody. I agree that melody is what makes a song memorable, but there are lots of very musical examples of melody combined with better-than-average lyrics. Check out Peter Gabriel's work, both with Genesis and solo, for a prime example of a good prosodist (see, I'm thinkin' 'bout ya, mgiles7 :D). I'll even suggest a couple of examples: "Seven Stones" from *Nursery Cryme* by Genesis and "Solsbury Hill" from Gabriel's first solo effort. While simple is sometimes better, I appreciate when an artist goes the extra bit and writes a fine lyric to match the equally fine melody.

mgiles7, don't get the impression from my response above that I think lyrics are so that you must make them perfect to match the melody. If you have to swing to one extreme or the other, dale_c is right that melody is more important in the long run. Maybe you dissatisfaction with your prosody is more about losing objectivity than about actual inability. What do others say about your songs? Your tunes might be better than you think, dude. Just don't work them to death for the sake of a "perfect" marriage of melody and lyric.

This brings to mind another idea about the value of outside opinion that I once read. Gotta start a new thread :D!
 
I believe that "Dark Side of the Moon" sold as well as it did and stayed in the top 100 as long as it did because of the lyrics. Anyone can relate to most of them. "And then one day you find, ten years have got behind you...." and so on.
 
dragonworks said:
I believe that "Dark Side of the Moon" sold as well as it did and stayed in the top 100 as long as it did because of the lyrics. Anyone can relate to most of them. "And then one day you find, ten years have got behind you...." and so on.



That's exactly what Rodger Waters himself said..........He also said that sometimes the best lyrics you write are the one's that are vague and childish and written in a matter of minutes.....He said that that is what he learned from Sib barrett......He also said that lyrics of these nature are often the ones that a songwriter is inclined to crumple up and toss in the waste paper basket...........

Many of the lyrics on dark side of the moon are those type of lyrics......If you or I wrote them....Our first reaction would probably be that they are sub-par........However, I find that those simple lyrics that are written in an innocent fashion, before you start thinking about what other people will think about them etc.., are often the lyrics that have the most profound prosody....To bad I keep crumpling up those sheets of paper :D

=nave

BTW, Rodger Waters also talks of prosody......although he doesn't actually use that word, he talks of "The way the lyric rythmically falls within in the meter of the verse"
 
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