Where's the production value?

DavidK said:
...The piece I am working on now, Sorcerers Apprentice, only has about 95 tracks on it. Nice and simple.:D
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Violinists by nature have a swarming instinct. This obviously affects your approach to recording production also.

This is easy to prove. How many times do you see a violinist playing solo? Once in a while, sure, but they're almost always swarming together in big groups. I've seen it on TV. They're like bees, man.
 
95 tracks? :eek: :eek: :eek:

That's insane. I can't even fathom needing that many tracks for anything. I think my house would explode.
 
Steve's explanation makes much more sense to me than what I thought was being expressed here originally. Point taken.

In my case...I only have 8 tracks to work with and my attempts at radical experimentation inevitably sound like ass. Perhaps this thread will inspire me to try something new...well, probably not.
 
steve.h said:
That's too bad :/
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I have to admit that I am as guilty as anyone of piling on the tracks until everything is playing at once thinking that more is better. Well, Steve has reminded me that music ain't chili.

I would love to have the patience and the artistry to create some volume envelopes where each new interesting sound is presented by itself, even if the suggestion is in harmony with another sound that just faded out.

Does that make any sense? Here's another one that I wish I had the patience for: Some instruments have very similar tone on one note or another, so, how would it sound to sustain a note of, say, a harmonica and have it morph into a recorder or a clarinet or something. In my mind, that's doable. Am I just pipe dreaming here?
 
theblackBay said:
Can I use Nirvana, “Smells like teen spirit” as an example?

I can thanks:

There were two entities essentially two(2) versions of the song that existed one(1) version the last one to come into existence never existed until the Producer (i know not his name) (point proven?) made it.

So to get that clear - smells like teen spirit – (1) - the song existed after Nirvana wrote it and played it live and everything but the hit the one EVERYONE knows, it didn't exist until they walked into the Production/engineering room and that Producer PRODUCED THAT SOUND.

Then it existed... so who "Wrote" the "sound" the Producer did. Who wrote the first song/arrangment Nirvana did.

What is more important? the "Sound" or the "Arrangements" both of course but one of them doesn’t get mentioned.

But that's the nature of things I guess it's similar to killing your own goat to eat.

no,...in fact i would say it is EXCATLY like Killing your own goat to eat.

you probably wouldn't eat it if you had to kill it yourself, knowing that Kurts Guitar didn't really always have that growl and that there was multipule vox tracks is killing the magic i guess, being a gypsy myself i guess i see that.
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K, I've heard a couple of Nirvana songs in multitrack format and basicaly throwing the faders up on the desk gets you that raw Nirvana sound that only they had. Sure there's a bit of spit and polish on there but it's basicaly nirvana.

I can't remember who said it in this post but there's basicaly a few different types of posters on here.

You get average joe, wearing a behringer badge just wanting someone to listen to his songs and tell him how great his music/songs/production skills are. Posts in the clinic every week

A level above you get guys interested in recording who want to better their own skills at it, but... small budgets, lack of gear...your mates don't want to sound like ass so you're stuck recording yourself. Maybe you really love mixing music but your tracking skills leave a lot to be desired or, you've churned out so many meaningless tunes nobody wants to listen and give you advice no more....worse still, you don't want to listen to the advice. Posts about once a month

A level on top you get guys that have hung around here for years lurking and reading and absorbing every detail of every aspect of recording amd producing music, and had to do all of the theory way before they could afford to get into the practical side. These are the ones that weren't spoon fed answers. Thet were maybe pointed in the right direction by the guys a level above that were wise enough to tell them just enough to get them interested to go research stuff themselves and to solve their own problems. Posts a few times a year when they think they have actualy captured tallent. Yes TALLENT, that#s what it's all about. You need either to have been LUCKY enough to capture a great performance or a great song to start with. Mixing is superficial

Finaly, not many around these parts any more but I still see a few trying to do a good job (you know who you are) you have the guys that have spent all of their life in music and the recording industry. They don't even bother posting songs up, their track record stands up for its self.

That's basicaly the 4 groups of people I see on here now. You know, you can't listen to some kids tune and tell him his room sounds like shit cause he has no interest, all he want's to know is what's the best tube driven lava lamp that responds best to his sub woofer on his stereo he's mixing through.

I might have gotten into a bit of a rant there. what was the question? Minimalist sounding production..... I'm a user. I try to use everything I'm given in a mix and not throw anything away. Some times I'll duplicate tracks and process them in a different way and pan them way off and miles back in the mix but it all boils down to what the mix NEEDS

More cowbell anyone? :D

Alex
 
LemonTree said:
K, I've heard a couple of Nirvana songs in multitrack format and basicaly throwing the faders up on the desk gets you that raw Nirvana sound that only they had. Sure there's a bit of spit and polish on there but it's basicaly nirvana.

I can't remember who said it in this post but there's basicaly a few different types of posters on here.

You get average joe, wearing a behringer badge just wanting someone to listen to his songs and tell him how great his music/songs/production skills are. Posts in the clinic every week

A level above you get guys interested in recording who want to better their own skills at it, but... small budgets, lack of gear...your mates don't want to sound like ass so you're stuck recording yourself. Maybe you really love mixing music but your tracking skills leave a lot to be desired or, you've churned out so many meaningless tunes nobody wants to listen and give you advice no more....worse still, you don't want to listen to the advice. Posts about once a month

A level on top you get guys that have hung around here for years lurking and reading and absorbing every detail of every aspect of recording amd producing music, and had to do all of the theory way before they could afford to get into the practical side. These are the ones that weren't spoon fed answers. Thet were maybe pointed in the right direction by the guys a level above that were wise enough to tell them just enough to get them interested to go research stuff themselves and to solve their own problems. Posts a few times a year when they think they have actualy captured tallent. Yes TALLENT, that#s what it's all about. You need either to have been LUCKY enough to capture a great performance or a great song to start with. Mixing is superficial

Finaly, not many around these parts any more but I still see a few trying to do a good job (you know who you are) you have the guys that have spent all of their life in music and the recording industry. They don't even bother posting songs up, their track record stands up for its self.

That's basicaly the 4 groups of people I see on here now. You know, you can't listen to some kids tune and tell him his room sounds like shit cause he has no interest, all he want's to know is what's the best tube driven lava lamp that responds best to his sub woofer on his stereo he's mixing through.

I might have gotten into a bit of a rant there. what was the question? Minimalist sounding production..... I'm a user. I try to use everything I'm given in a mix and not throw anything away. Some times I'll duplicate tracks and process them in a different way and pan them way off and miles back in the mix but it all boils down to what the mix NEEDS

More cowbell anyone? :D

Alex
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So which one of those guys are you? And, it's taLent. ;)
 
Greg_L said:
So which one of those guys are you? And, it's taLent. ;)
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I don't think I'm any of those guys, I stoped hanging around the clinic a long time ago. I came back a few weeks ago with a couple of songs I tracked and mixed on new gear to get some views from people who were familiar to my mixes with my old equipment. (Shameless link here), but didn't get much of a responce and infact was accused of being a level 1 poster....maybe I just left it too long from my last time here

I think it's a bit of a harsh place for some people, for every guy in here with a decent listening chain and an acousticaly treated room commenting on mixes there's XXX amount more listening on computer speakers in a box room or a basement full of standing waves and reflections

TALLENT looks TALLer than taLent...maybe that's why I used the caps :confused:
 
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There are other catagories, too:

One of them is the person who ONLY posts when they have some music. They never comment on anyone else's music, and usually have an attitude of "Be thankful I'm letting you listen to this". They're not really looking for critique, just want to bless us with their incredible talent, and are usually surprised to hear any criticism at all. This type of person will even argue about opinion or make excuses or claim that the shitty guitar on the left side was exactly what they wanted and anyone criticising it just doesn't get it.

It sounds like I'm being harsh, but there are quite a few people like that. And alot of these people are actually very active in other forums here, and are people I have nothing against. But, I'll never go into one of their threads in the Clinic because they don't give anyone the same courtesy they're taking for granted when they come in here.
 
A Reel Person said:
That's harsh. I'm hurt.:eek:;)
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I haven't gone back and checked every poster in this thread...But I can assure you I wasn't deliberately directing that at anyone that posted in this thread, yourself included...........ya big baby!!! :D :D:D
 
RAMI said:
There are other catagories, too:

One of them is the person who ONLY posts when they have some music. They never comment on anyone else's music, and usually have an attitude of "Be thankful I'm letting you listen to this". They're not really looking for critique, just want to bless us with their incredible talent, and are usually surprised to hear any criticism at all. This type of person will even argue about opinion or make excuses or claim that the shitty guitar on the left side was exactly what they wanted and anyone criticising it just doesn't get it.

It sounds like I'm being harsh, but there are quite a few people like that. And alot of these people are actually very active in other forums here, and are people I have nothing against. But, I'll never go into one of their threads in the Clinic because they don't give anyone the same courtesy they're taking for granted when they come in here.
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Well said, Rami. I also feel very strongly about the same thing. No shortage of arrogant types (I could make a list) who think that everybody else in the clinic is there just to be their audience.

Just a suggestion to anyone interested: when you post a tune in the clinic, listen and post comments to a few other threads that are there at the same time. And don't make half-assed excuses like the common, "I don't really know what I'm doing so can't comment on someone else's tune.", or the usually unsaid but clearly conveyed, "I'm an elitist. I won't lower myself to listen to your stuff. Worship me.":D And other excuses in between.

All that is BS. The clinic is good because it's a place where you can experiment and get feedback on it. Go to CD Baby/iTunes if you just want an audience.
 
XLR said:
Well said, Rami. I also feel very strongly about the same thing. No shortage of arrogant types (I could make a list) who think that everybody else in the clinic is there just to be their audience.

Just a suggestion to anyone interested: when you post a tune in the clinic, listen and post comments to a few other threads that are there at the same time. And don't make half-assed excuses like the common, "I don't really know what I'm doing so can't comment on someone else's tune.", or the usually unsaid but clearly conveyed, "I'm an elitist. I won't lower myself to listen to your stuff. Worship me.":D And other excuses in between.

All that is BS. The clinic is good because it's a place where you can experiment and get feedback on it. Go to CD Baby/iTunes if you just want an audience.
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Right on, brother.:cool:

I will add this:

I often stay away from the CLINIC for prolonged periods, for no particular reason, while still posting in other forums on this site. I sometimes find I just don't feel like being around music (mine included) for a while. So, sometimes it's just a matter of timing whether I'll comment on someone's tune or not.
But, as soon as I do posting something, I'm commenting on everyone else's like a fanatic. I don't think it's too much to ask people that, if your tune is still on page one of the CLINIC, comment on other people's tunes, too.

Another category is the person who posts a tune, gets advice and comments, and doesn't even come back to their OWN THREAD!
 
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