qiktune
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Perfect answer!
Where to get started in song writing
- Thread starter mrje1
- Start date
Perfect answer!
Freudian Slip
New member
No I have not tried it. That would be why I said I had never heard of it.
I guess there is the possibility that the advertising I looked at that describe it's functions could have been misleading or flat out deceitful. I could try to paste it here so that everyone could see that the language I used was directly from the advertisement.
I don’t want to drive or buy a Chevy Avalanche. It’s half truck half SUV with a pickup bed that folds down into the rear of the cab. I don’t think it would make a great truck or a great SUV, and the fold down section on the back of the cab just spells water leaks to me. I have however never driven one or “tried one” so I guess my opinion is moot??????
The fact is that the product portrays it’s self in a certain way with well thought out clarity.
The maker of this product designed this advertisement specifically to provide me with information on which to form an opinion.
Job done. I hope this product works fantastic for people who want to use it. I certainly hope it lives up to it’s own advertising. I personally do not wish to use it. If you want to, that’s fantastic.
F.S.
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Bet you havent even seen the flash intro of it. At least do that.
And a SUV? oh ok
Seriously; I ain´t here to try to force people into buying Masterwriter. Competitionwise my lyrics gets better by using it, so frankly - if I was the only MW user in the world it would give me an edge.
But when I see people commenting left and right about things they haven´t even bothered to look into; I sometimes feel I must chime a dime.
It´s like I - in the 80´s - claimed that Microsoft Word (or whatever the name was back then) would destroy the creative flow of my lyrics, and that I insisted on writing with lyrics with my pencil and a piece of paper.
Well; whatever. Don´t like it? Fine; don´t use it. But hey, get some information on what we are debating. And no more cars ok?
Peace, love and happiness
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Freudian Slip
New member
Bet you havent even seen the flash intro of it. At least do that.
And a SUV? oh ok
Seriously; I ain´t here to try to force people into buying Masterwriter. Competitionwise my lyrics gets better by using it, so frankly - if I was the only MW user in the world it would give me an edge.
But when I see people commenting left and right about things they haven´t even bothered to look into; I sometimes feel I must chime a dime.
It´s like I - in the 80´s - claimed that Microsoft Word (or whatever the name was back then) would destroy the creative flow of my lyrics, and that I insisted on writing with lyrics with my pencil and a piece of paper.
Well; whatever. Don´t like it? Fine; don´t use it. But hey, get some information on what we are debating. And no more cars ok?
Peace, love and happiness
I will watch the flash presentation.
The reason I brought up an suv is because I formed an opinion about the concept of the vehicle.
I formed an opinion on Master Writer (as to weather or not I would use it) based on the obvious concept and claimed functions.
I would not go around commenting on the quality of something I have not used. In the rare occasion that I do because of overwhelming opinion by others, I make that very clear that I am only passing on what seems to be the opinion of the vast majority of people who have used it.
So I just wanted to clarify that I am not commenting on the quality of the software. I actually assume the quality is quite good.
F.S.
nonsense. The vast majority that installs and runs Masterwriter never looks back. Wakeup call.
What you might be referring to is other people like yourself, that somehow beleives that such a piece of software will "destroy" some side of their artistic side or creative flow, and actually try to "write" some lines for them; making parts of their masterclass (wee) lyrics computerised or somehow altered. Thats the first thoughts that strucks peoples minds, and mine wasn´t any different. Boy, was I wrong.
Masterwriter is a tiny packaged piece of software with an abnormeous inside. See it as an organizer of anyones lyrics. But it´s much more. It has to be said again; the creativity lies in our hands - not in any software package. But still dictionaries, rhyme books and much more has been tools for the serious lyricist for the last 50-100 years - maybe even more. Stuff like that is now packed into masterwriter. Whats the deal with a phrase coming from something you snap from a TV-show, on the corner in your ghetto or from the library in Masterwriter? It´s still the same phrase, and you can still use all your other sources of inputs for your lyrics.
But pleeaase; dont feel forced to have a bombastic opinion on something you havent tried; nor even watched the flash introduction for.
Now stop making up stories and go watch that intro.
/bow
Freudian Slip
New member
nonsense. The vast majority that installs and runs Masterwriter never looks back. Wakeup call.
Now stop making up stories and go watch that intro.
Don't put a god damn smiley face at the end of that out of context bullshit.
I guess I will stop being nice and just be the person you are forcing me to be.
I DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF THIS SOFTWARE!!!!!!!
You already know that. It’s pretty damn clear what I meant. Playing stupid to try and counter me is poor way to accomplish your goals. There is nothing to counter.
It either does what it claims great, or it does what it claims badly and perhaps not at all. I don't care! It does not matter!
I do not like rape and murder. I have not tried them and I won't.
Get it. It’s not for me. Not my bag. Is my opinion rape and murder invalid because I have not tried them?
Since it seems you tried your best to pull from my post and slide in a claim like "The vast majority that installs and runs Masterwriter never looks back. Wakeup call." I will counter it with, well no shit! They were looking for what the product offers. They like the concept. They more than likely sought out a product with the tools Masterwriter offers.
Great. fantastic! I hope they get what they paid for.
It's like the insurance commercial that says 70% of people that switch to "who ever" saved money. I would hope so
Sort of a non-claim that sounds good when thrown about, but means nothing. Especially to someone who has no need for insurance.
Now if you really want to piss me off you should try to invalidate my opinion by picking apart my spelling and grammar.
F.S.
I stopped reading there.
Consider me out of this friendly debate.
Good luck writing your lyrics; with or without pencils, software, dictionaries or SUV´s
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Freudian Slip
New member
I stopped reading there.
Consider me out of this friendly debate.
Good luck writing your lyrics; with or without pencils, software, dictionaries or SUV´s
It could have been a friendly debate if there was anything to debate.
You insisted on debating the against someone who has nothing to debate with you and who tried to make that clear.
You chose to do that by attacking my credability right away.
Can you really wonder why I would get upset?
F.S.
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Freudian Slip
New member
Done
F.S.
F.S.
TerraMortim
New member
NO!!!! DON'T EVER BUY A BOOK ABOUT THAT! It could ruin you. =D poetry is yet another one of those things that can only be understood, and not taught. Chances are, if you need to read a book about poetry you don't understand it.
TerraMortim
New member
Don't put a god damn smiley face at the end of that out of context bullshit.
I guess I will stop being nice and just be the person you are forcing me to be.
I DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF THIS SOFTWARE!!!!!!!
You already know that. It’s pretty damn clear what I meant. Playing stupid to try and counter me is poor way to accomplish your goals. There is nothing to counter.
It either does what it claims great, or it does what it claims badly and perhaps not at all. I don't care! It does not matter!
I do not like rape and murder. I have not tried them and I won't.
Get it. It’s not for me. Not my bag. Is my opinion rape and murder invalid because I have not tried them?
Since it seems you tried your best to pull from my post and slide in a claim like "The vast majority that installs and runs Masterwriter never looks back. Wakeup call." I will counter it with, well no shit! They were looking for what the product offers. They like the concept. They more than likely sought out a product with the tools Masterwriter offers.
Great. fantastic! I hope they get what they paid for.
It's like the insurance commercial that says 70% of people that switch to "who ever" saved money. I would hope so
Sort of a non-claim that sounds good when thrown about, but means nothing. Especially to someone who has no need for insurance.
Now if you really want to piss me off you should try to invalidate my opinion by picking apart my spelling and grammar.
F.S.
Rape and murder are all in a days work for me.
TerraMortim
New member
what next, prothstetic limbs to play your instruments, algorythms to come up with melodies, and a piece of software that you press the "mix" button and it sends your mix off to mtv? *sigh*
I didn't need to buy it,I just wanted to and half way through I realized songwriting is not poetry.It helped me understand the difference.Am I a poet?.No.Will I be a better songwriter now? I think so and that's all that matters.
How can it ruin me when there was nothing to ruin? I tried writing lyrics many years ago and they were terrible so I threw them in the garbage.Big deal.It's easier now.I learned to read music later in life,so did that ruin me too?
azraelswings
New member
What? That is terrible, misguided, and ignorant advice. Reading, understanding, and writing poetry, are skills that must be developed through practice. A book that effectively guides that practice will help a person develop those skills. Period. People learn to play instruments from books and teachers. But somehow, whenever someone brings up the idea of 'learning' creative skills like writing, there's a lynch mob running for their "IT WILL KILL YOUR SOUL!" pitchforks. Intuition is developed through experience. Guiding that experience will not kill your creativity.
I have no experience with that particular book, but I can assure that there are poetry books that will guide one in the development of writing skills. They will not turn you into the next Shakespeare overnight. However, they will expose you to works and methods that you might not consider otherwise.
Unless you have no ability to think for yourself and critically evaluate what you are reading, then you will not be "ruined" by reading a writer's guide. Saying otherwise is tantamount to stating that reading Mein Kampf will turn you into a nazi. In this sort of book you will likely read things that you find helpful, and things that you find useless, or even downright disagree with. This will help you develop an aesthetic.
Thus the point of reading one. Poetry is read and analyzed by thousands of educated scholars that, despite all being intelligent and educated people, often disagree on its meaning. But no, you definitely shouldn't read about it. That would totally kill the whole point.
TerraMortim
New member
=D a bit of dramatics, don't you think? haha I do stand by my point but I was trying to make it in a humourous way...hense the capslock and millions of exclamation points and shit. YOu can check out books or whatever.. my point is..there is NO academia to poetry OR songwriting. It's impossible to effectively teach anyone how to write a good song or a good poem. You can teach someone music... how to understand that, because it actually exists, can be replicated perfectly for everyone in the exact same way. Poetry and a song don't exist in the same way that music does. It's perception is different depending on who is viewing it, and a million different people will take the same techniques and it will result in a million different songs.
There is not a top songwriter or poet alive or dead for that matter that learned it from a book or class..sure they may have learned MUSIC..and the theory behind that, but as far as making a good song, it was just something they had built into them.
TerraMortim
New member
yeah it's read by a bunch of scholars who don't get what they're reading and try to put a formula to it, when there IS NONE. Poetry is to words what 12 tone music is to music. Generally free form, free of grammar rules, proper spellings, or in some cases of even making coherant sentences. That's not the point...and what one person's poetry is, is different to another. Sure, read lots of poetry if you want to do it to get you immersed in the concept of it, but nobody can tell you how to interpret it, or what it's "about" the same as some dude in a classroom can't teach you what a song means to you, or what makes it a great song..it's for you to figure out, and then express yourself accordingly to your own life, and your own experience...and hell, if people like your expression, then you are a successful songwriter. There is no such thing as an expert at this sort of thing, every human being on the planet it an expert of their own world of art. e.g. You're an expert of what art means to you, and what art is meaningful to you. So whatever art holds meaning to you is good art. If that constitutes a person taking a shit on a shaved cat, and you feel some sort of emotion from such a spectical, then it's great art.
The reason for the difference in attitudes, when it comes to music vs. the songwriting end of it, is because it's entirely different. You can be the worst musician in the world and write as good of a song as a Berklee grad. And vice versa. Musical ability can be more effectively taught in a classroom setting. Those notes on the staff don't change depending on who is viewing them, the notes on a piano (as long as you are tuning it to the common modern tuning for a piano) will always produce the same notes, no matter the skill level, or musical understanding of the player.
Songwriting is an entirely different skill to playing music. Some people have both skills hammered down. While you can help someone understand music in general better, or improve their playing ability, the only one that could make them write better songs is themself. Listen to lots of songs, make up their own minds of what it means to them, express themselves in the way they see fit. (note, not all emotions are of the bleeding heart type..there's anger, hate, lust, even greed, selfishness, etc)
As a paralell to what I was previously talking about. Poetry has nothing to do with writing ability. A monkey could write a poem, and if it meant something to someone, it's a great poem. There is the arguement that better writing skills will help you make more effective poetry, at the same time a musical understanding will aide your songwriting. Yes. This is very true. BUT!!!... it won't make your write good songs, it can only aide what you are allready developing deep within yourself. You can teach music, you can teach writing skills, and it'll only make it easier to create songs or poetry... but, you can't teach directly poetry, or songs.. only indirectly by exposing someone to a lot of it, and teaching them the technical skills. But do remember, a good song or a good poem have NOTHING to do with technical ability and never will. Success is making people feel, and touching them, and you can not teach anyone how to do that.
Regarding your Mein Kampf analogy, kind of proves my point a little further. Reading something like Mein Kampf only makes someone a Nazi if they resonate with it in a certain way. Personally, I find the political hints in it, regarding how to control the masses, how to make them believe everything you say, etc.. to be hillarious that anyone would take it as inspiration to be a Nazi. It says right in it some of the techniques they were to use to control the masses, including the often quoted "what a great thing for government that men do not think". What my point with this is, of course it doesn't make you a Nazi, the same as I don't go out killing and torturing people when I listen to a Cannibal Corpse album. Do you think something like Mein Kampf is the most well written thing on the planet? Is it a technical masterpiece by any right? It doesn't matter. While I don't agree with the overall message, it surely has stirred a lot of people since it's writing. Hell.. look how taken the general populus of Germany was with him. He knew how to play with people's emotions and make them stand in awe of him, even though he was a short, fat, man with little self confidence and quite the opposite of everything he said was good (bi-sexual, part jewish, a smoker (YES HE WAS!), a drinker (YES HE WAS!), short, fat, black hair brown eyes, not even german, a failure as an artist, and before his career in politics a homeless man. Why did that book stir people? It wwas because he played with their emotions, and took advantage of specific mental weaknesses that the great majority of people have, not because it was grammatically and technically perfect.
azraelswings
New member
Um, no. Criticism does not try to "put a formula" to art. It comments on it, in an attempt to further understanding.
Generalizing poetry as free of form or grammar rules is just wrong. Were you to say that about certain movements or particular poets (the Beats and Cummings come to mind), then the statement would bear some truth. Shakespeare's sonnets, Milton's Paradise Lost, and a great deal more written previous to the turn of the century (more particularly beginning in and forward of the 1940's) fly in the face of that generalization.
No, but they can certainly tell you how they interpret it, or what it is about to them. That should certainly not be confused with a "right answer." But, it is something to consider. If you think that you can learn nothing from other people's perspectives, then you are sadly mistaken.
Taken literally, your definition of art implies that since my mother values my kindergarten fingerpaintings, they are art. My kindergarten finger paintings are not art.
I'm assuming that by "worst musician" you mean someone without much technical or basic musicianship skills. I agree that technicality does not make a good writer. But, being as how we are discussing where to get started in writing, I'm dismissing this entire line of reasoning as off-topic.
Agreed.
All good advice. Also, all advice that is generally found in ANY book about writing songs, poetry, or prose. Which is why it is counter productive to dismiss such works.
See my previous argument regarding finger paintings.
I have no idea what you mean by 'writing skills.' I gather from context that you mean an understanding of grammar, punctuation, and 'proper' writing. Guidelines about which, were you to open a guide to creative writing, you would fail to find.
Read as it is, the above opinion would motivate you to advise someone to "learn about music, read about music, read about how people approach writing, but remember that you can only write what you really feel, and can't write anything you don't believe." Which, is exactly what I'm saying, and exactly what you will find in any reputable beginner's writing guide.
Teaching poetry does not end with exposing someone to it. You make it sound as though studies in poetry are lessons in what to think. They are not. They are lessons in how.
Agreed. But, thinking about what touches you and how works touch other people can only help in the development of your abilities.
Only because you don't understand it. I was not considering the artistic merit of Mein Kampf. Only commenting that reading the book does not force you to synthesize its ideas. There is no knowledge one should be afraid of. Knowing the rules does not force one to follow.
I fully understand and realize your point that there is no formula for great art or expression. I fully realize your frustration with the fact that music today is more or less written to a formula. And, I agree. Further, I gather from your posts that you believe an artist must approach creative endeavors with a reckless abandon for the expectations of others. Which, I also agree with wholeheartedly. Considering other ideas, however, does not limit one to using only those ideas. Your posts make it sound as though there are only two ends of the spectrum: searching for the formula, or limiting yourself solely to your own perspective. It is an immature and simplistic way to look at the subject of creativity.
Your posts have made it abundantly clear that you have not read a reputable guide to writing poetry. Had you, you would know that such texts do not purport to have such a magic formula. Being that you are ignorant of the contents of such books, you should refrain from discouraging people from reading them. There are plenty of songwriting books that do advertise "HIT SONGWRITING METHODS!" which I could understand your warning people to be wary of. Those sorts of texts which do purport to have some secret elixir of artistic genius should be avoided. But, discounting books on the topic of writing or creativity solely because they are on the topic of writing or creativity, is a baseless silly argument. There are books both with and without merit on all subjects. Thus, each should be considered individually.