Where have I been? What's with all the small low wattage heads these days...

  • Thread starter Thread starter elenore19
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A number of simple factors are probably at work here:

Big and powerful is not necessarily better. Keeping your ears is.
Small is easier to haul and carry
Stage volume doesn’t have to carry the guitar; it can come from the PA
Many get their sound from floor pedals, and a small amp projects it just as well
Small amps can sound REALLY good.
IEMs

Ed
 
I own four amps. One is an 84 pound 100watt 2x12 combo. The other three are all 5 or 15 watts.

Can you tell which one I bought when I was in a band and which 3 I bought when I was recording? :)
 
Ed Dixon said:
A number of simple factors are probably at work here:

Big and powerful is not necessarily better. Keeping your ears is.
Small is easier to haul and carry
Stage volume doesn’t have to carry the guitar; it can come from the PA
Many get their sound from floor pedals, and a small amp projects it just as well
Small amps can sound REALLY good.
IEMs

Ed
Click to expand...
+1, this thread is full of win:D
you and I think very much alike:)
 
WhiteStrat said:
I own four amps. One is an 84 pound 100watt 2x12 combo. The other three are all 5 or 15 watts.

Can you tell which one I bought when I was in a band and which 3 I bought when I was recording? :)
Click to expand...

the 84 pounder is for recording because you are not going to carry that heavy thing around to gigs;)


:D
 
Roguetitan said:
the 84 pounder is for recording because you are not going to carry that heavy thing around to gigs;)


:D
Click to expand...

Very clever, grasshopper! They're all for recording now, not in a band anymore. But since I've been spending so much time in the studio, I'm not worried about a monster amp that impresses folks from a mile away. I like having more options, and lower wattage options that I can crank easier.
 
This debate of big amp VS small amp seems to be leaving out the fact that 99% of small amps are Class A. The big ones are AB.

People seem to wet themselves at the "class A" sales pitch, but class A doesn't mean squat if the sound in your head is A/B.

Two separate tones.
 
Texsunburst59 said:
5 watts is TOO much in the studio.:D All you need is a 1/2 watt amp to record with. Here's some clips of my clips of my Marshall MS-2 I recorded using it's own stock speaker.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=633883&songID=5832503
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=633883&songID=5814298
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=633883&songID=5780211
Click to expand...

I got you beat... ;)
I ditched the internal speaker for an 8ohm output. Used that to power a 412 set of Greenbacks in the 1960AX. :P It sounds good, and is loud.

ms21.jpg

ms22.jpg

ms23.jpg
 
Tadpui said:
The thing with most low-wattage tube combos is that they use smaller speakers. I think that the difference that some of you 100-watter fans are hearing is the difference between 4 12" speakers woofing and barking when they're really moving versus an 8" or 10" speaker that just can't reproduce the low end or low-mids. A 5W Valve Jr. through a 4x12 is surprisingly loud.
Click to expand...

DING DING DING!

When I bought my Epiphone Valve Jr. at the Fairfax, VA Guitar Center (a VERY large showroom), we hooked it up to a 4x12 and dimed it. My friend and I took turns playing obnoxious guitar solos. EVERYTHING in that store came to a stop. Nobody could talk on the phones, nobody could have a conversation, nobody else could test out guitars at a reasonable volume level. Everyone was staring daggers at us, and we were infinitely entertained. The first two times we were asked to quit, we said, "Aw c'mon, it's just a 5W amp! You're crazy!"

But finally we shut up and left.

These people saying that a low-wattage amp sounds like a toy are without a doubt playing through cheap cheap cheap small speakers. My Valve Jr. is almost always hooked up to a 1x15 bass cabinet and there's nothing tiny or toy sounding about it.
 
There are good points for both sides of this debate but I am willing to bet that cost and mobility is the major cause of the rise of the smaller amps. Everybody wants something they can stick in their pocket and go (look at cell phones, ipods, computers). They are getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
At any rate, I have to put my two cents in for larger amps. It might be the genre of music I typically play (metal/hard rock) but I like to use at least a 4x12 cab with a 50-100 watt amp head. I am not one of those retards turning a Triple rec wide open 3 feet from my face but when I get on stage there better be some air moving behind me. Call me crazy but for me playing isn't just about hearing but also "feeling" what you are playing. I have a 45 watt Mesa Nomad head that sounds fantastic but in some band settings it isn't able to get loud enough without getting squirrely. The tone gets super bloated when you push it really hard and that is why I typically take my Framus Cobra out for live shows. The volume rarely goes past 11 o'clock but if I need more volume...it is there. Yes it is a pain in the ass to haul a cab and heavy amp head around but I just don't see one of these low wattage small amps fitting the bill.
 
I think a major factor has to be the falling cost of recording at home. I'm not talking pro quality, but you can get set up for cheap enough that people can afford it as just a hobby. I don't think these are all serious guitar people snatching up valve jr's and blackhearts.
 
Nobody has mentioned output trannys. I'm faaar from an expert on anything electronic, but one of the things I like about power amp distortion and a tube amp on the verge is sag. And when you're running a 100 watt tube head into a 4x12, that output tranny is built not to take no for an answer. It's not on the edge yet.

Now, like I said, my knowledge is extremely limited, but I find it very interesting that the larger amps with larger transformers don't sag or "give," and they are the ones often more popular with metal or hard rock guitarists who need fast, precise response from their amps in order to pull off their rhythm playing. I'd like to hear a higher gain Valve Jr. with a monster output transformer - I bet the wattage would make much less of a difference.
 
Also, just because you want to be the loudest band around and knock folks over with the first chord doesn't mean you have to stand in front of your speakers - let the PA do the work, and stand in your comfy spot on stage to watch the crowd squirm in auditory discomfort.
 
BrentDomann said:
Also, just because you want to be the loudest band around and knock folks over with the first chord doesn't mean you have to stand in front of your speakers - let the PA do the work, and stand in your comfy spot on stage to watch the crowd squirm in auditory discomfort.
Click to expand...

:DYa boy!:D
 
Outlaws said:
This debate of big amp VS small amp seems to be leaving out the fact that 99% of small amps are Class A. The big ones are AB.

People seem to wet themselves at the "class A" sales pitch, but class A doesn't mean squat if the sound in your head is A/B.

Two separate tones.
Click to expand...

this is perfectly true, but A/B doesn't have to be huge.. SCXD has A/B power section - 15 watts, i can't think of others, but maybe Epi Blues Custom 30 - has a switchable Class A 15-watts and Class A/B 30-watt operation.

Stevieb raises a good point - i think the way they say it is: "too much stage volume may equal muddy stage mix" - a 100wt (tube) stack, even if you're not standing in front of it... gets loud. and it HAS to get loud to get it to a sweet spot (probably depends on the amp, but something tells me that those who want that power tend to want power tube crunch and that's very loud).

I even suspect that getting the drummer to play softer (or, dare I say, play smaller drums) might start with getting the guitarist to play less loudly. (at least some drummers, lol).
 
Outlaws said:
This debate of big amp VS small amp seems to be leaving out the fact that 99% of small amps are Class A. The big ones are AB.

People seem to wet themselves at the "class A" sales pitch, but class A doesn't mean squat if the sound in your head is A/B.

Two separate tones.
Click to expand...

That all depends on how you define "small". I consider my Deluxe Reverb (22 watts into a single 12) and my Blues Jr (18 watts into a single 10) to be small amps, and they are both class AB.
 
Wireneck said:
There are good points for both sides of this debate but I am willing to bet that cost and mobility is the major cause of the rise of the smaller amps. Everybody wants something they can stick in their pocket and go (look at cell phones, ipods, computers). They are getting smaller and smaller and smaller.
At any rate, I have to put my two cents in for larger amps. It might be the genre of music I typically play (metal/hard rock) but I like to use at least a 4x12 cab with a 50-100 watt amp head. I am not one of those retards turning a Triple rec wide open 3 feet from my face but when I get on stage there better be some air moving behind me. Call me crazy but for me playing isn't just about hearing but also "feeling" what you are playing. I have a 45 watt Mesa Nomad head that sounds fantastic but in some band settings it isn't able to get loud enough without getting squirrely. The tone gets super bloated when you push it really hard and that is why I typically take my Framus Cobra out for live shows. The volume rarely goes past 11 o'clock but if I need more volume...it is there. Yes it is a pain in the ass to haul a cab and heavy amp head around but I just don't see one of these low wattage small amps fitting the bill.
Click to expand...

+1

i play a carvin V3 set to 50 watts. last week i played with some friends and had the master volume at 12:00 to keep up with the drummer. the tone and feel was bust ass! the drummer was holding back so we could hear the singer thru the little chicken shit PA we were using so if we get anything better i'll probably have to crank it up a couple more notches.

the most important thing? tone shaping. i don't want no black heard or valve jr. and i don't want to use pedals...unless it's my TS-9 for a little more saturation for solos.

i really don't care about wattage...i care about tone, but with this drummer, i'm glad i have 50 watts to play with.

to the room:
wanna really get right down to it? nobody cares. use what you like. ;)
 
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